Hansel: What I meant by "not optimized"

[Fuseboy]

?

This isn't d20. One of the things I love about BW is that I don't get paralyzed by the fear that my character's not optimized. There's no general "best" character build. It all depends on the situation. I suppose that if you said your game is all about dungeon-crawling, and a person built a totally social- and persuasive-focused character, then yeah, that character's not optimal for the situation, and the player may want to change some things. OR, since what really matters are BITs, that character might be really interesting & problematic in that situation!

I suppose I'd just like to know what "not optimized" means in your particular context, Fuseboy. Thanks!

What I meant is that I have a party of 3LP characters who haven't boosted their perception to compensate for the fact that it's harder to advance. (Nor have they chosen lifepaths to maximize their capability in the upcoming campaign, but as you say that's fine as long as I notice and challenge them appropriately according to their BITs.)

[Thor]

Yes. Typical tricks include:
1. Opting for lower Will and higher Perception (by which I mean Will B3 and Per B4 or something similar, otherwise your Hesitation suffers too much)
2. Favoring Forte among your physical stats, as it's harder to advance than other Stats. Speed and Power are easy to advance. Agility is more difficult/dangerous, but doable.
3. Opening weapon skills at Root or not opening them at all. You can get plenty of weapon tests if you use Fight! frequently. Also a great way to earn Agility tests!
4. Opening Duel of Wits skills at Root or not opening them at all. You can get plenty of dueling skill tests if you use Duel of Wits frequently. Also a great way to earn Will tests.
5. Opening lots of Wises and FoRK and Help-focused skills. I focus on the interesting skills on my lifepaths that I don't expect to use all the time but could be a big deal when they do come up. Stuff like Cooking, Firebuilding, Accounting, Reading, Writing, Cartography, etc.
6. Changing lifepath settings at least once so my Circles are more broadly applicable.
7. Spending some Resource points on an important skill toolkit or two. I can always find a weapon or upgrade poor-quality armor later, but I'll desperately want that toolkit if I don't have it.

[Thor]

Oh! and:
8. Making sure to invest trait points into one juicy Character trait! Die traits and Call-ons are all well and good, but one Fate-mine character trait can make a HUGE difference.

[Odie]

There's always an optimized build. That's what I love about BW! But the difference between BW and those other games your mother warned you about is that you can optimize for many different things, not just "ranged fighter" versus "magic fighter" versus "melée fighter." In fact, not only can you optimize for "range/R&C expert" or "melée fighter" or "smooth talker/DoW powerhouse," but you can also optimize for artha by creating a "high trouble" character. Thor's kind of got what I'd consider a middle-of-the-road optimization, giving consideration to effectiveness, advancement, and artha. But you can optimize for effectiveness, and take high skill exponents that are hard to advance and only die/call-on traits, and favor effectiveness over artha acquisition.

The trick, I'd say, is to figure out what you want and optimize accordingly. Our cheatyface Elves game, which we've come to call the "Living Legends" campaign due to its insane power level, has an Elven Loremaster with gray Perception and now Quick Study, so he opens new Perception-rooted skills in 2 tests. Specifically, Wises. This guy is a Wise (and History) juggernaut. Thorondil All-Knower, they call him, and say "If Thorondil says it, it must be true." I've never heard of such a character niche in other RPGs, but damned if it doesn't sing in BW.

-B

[Fuseboy]

That's very, very cool.

[The_Tim]

Tricking out stats and the like are hard in BW, only a few of the life paths have low years and offer +1M,P. The shortest LP that offers both is Military Order, which you can't get to in less than 5 LPs (IIRC).

So, as mentioned up thread, optimization is really about tailoring things to the game. Not just the context (like, I had a traveling performer in mind before Uddhar, but Sanj clarified the tone of the game and I realized that the original idea wasn't really the right fit), but scope. Short and sweet games, you go for the normal stuff--good numerical advantages. In the long play, you set yourself up for the development that can happen.

One thing I like to grab if I want to "optimize" are the Persona granting Traits, if they're relevant/available. One trick ponies in BW may leave the gate that way, but it just means they have tons of chances to get in way too deep; like, if you make a Seduction machine who has Entrancing Beauty, you can easily find yourself in a situation loaded up with Persona and with the ear of the most powerful NPCs in the setting, but no clue what to do and absolutely no way to pull off being refined and cultured at the big social event that's coming soon. It is going to be some painful character growth from there.

[AsthmaticHamster]

Tim,

I'm not familiar with the Entrancing Beauty trait. Could you point me to it?

[The_Tim]

It is in Blossoms, on the Witch Lifepath. It is a C-O for Seduction that costs 4 points, as it also has a clause of gaining a Persona if you fail in love with someone you've seduced.

[Rafe]

Yes. Typical tricks include:
1. Opting for lower Will and higher Perception (by which I mean Will B3 and Per B4 or something similar, otherwise your Hesitation suffers too much)
2. Favoring Forte among your physical stats, as it's harder to advance than other Stats. Speed and Power are easy to advance. Agility is more difficult/dangerous, but doable.
3. Opening weapon skills at Root or not opening them at all. You can get plenty of weapon tests if you use Fight! frequently. Also a great way to earn Agility tests!
4. Opening Duel of Wits skills at Root or not opening them at all. You can get plenty of dueling skill tests if you use Duel of Wits frequently. Also a great way to earn Will tests.
5. Opening lots of Wises and FoRK and Help-focused skills. I focus on the interesting skills on my lifepaths that I don't expect to use all the time but could be a big deal when they do come up. Stuff like Cooking, Firebuilding, Accounting, Reading, Writing, Cartography, etc.
6. Changing lifepath settings at least once so my Circles are more broadly applicable.
7. Spending some Resource points on an important skill toolkit or two. I can always find a weapon or upgrade poor-quality armor later, but I'll desperately want that toolkit if I don't have it.
8. Making sure to invest trait points into one juicy Character trait! Die traits and Call-ons are all well and good, but one Fate-mine character trait can make a HUGE difference.

9. Purposely (and not necessarily tactically) using a full gamut of tactics in Fight!s, DoWs and R&Cs to rack up different ability tests all over during a single conflict.

[Silvros]

Failing in love should not earn persona points. ^.^

Falling in love falls under RYOP rules in our games :P

[Rafe]

Failing in love should not earn persona points. ^.^

It's worth Deeds if LARP'd.

[Odie]

Failing in love should not earn persona points. ^.^

Hilarious unintentional typo is hilarious. What, you think it should only earn fate?


It's worth Deeds if LARP'd.

And (per the Adventure Burner) a fate if it's with your mom! Zing!

-B

[Etsu Riot]

I made an assassin girl. She has 3 PER and 4 WILL. I never thought she could not advance his Perception. I don't know why she has 3 in that Stat. She was slave in a harem. (She does not feel the +1 Ob penaltie of Superficial wounds.) Maybe she was injured or something. And she has 5 in SPEED and 2 in so many Skills. Somebody is going to kill her, I'm afraid.

[technomonkey]

Tricking out stats and the like are hard in BW, only a few of the life paths have low years and offer +1M,P. The shortest LP that offers both is Military Order, which you can't get to in less than 5 LPs (IIRC).

I was gonna say Country Wife, but it's not as short on years as I thought it was.

[yeloson]

For stat bumping madness, I usually recommend Peasant Born - Hunter/Trapper a couple of times. Both Hunter & Trapper give you +M, P for 5 years, which isn't too bad.

That's a lot easier than trying to go for Squire (6 years) which requires Page first... but on the other hand the Page/Squire route gives you more Resources and direct combat skills. (Not to mention Noble Born get 5 General Skill points!)

Here's another path for optimization- Noble Born - Lord (yes, jump straight to fucking lord) - Captain - Captain (or Advisor to the Court). Obviously, you're going to have to have a good story for your GM about being a child-lord who then jumps into war, but there's plenty of historical examples of stuff like that going down. Obviously the jump straight to Lord is also a good way to go if you're looking to maximize Resources.

If you want a powerful lady noble (provided the gender roles aren't totally locked in), Noble Born - Young Lady- Steward - Baron(ess) or Treasurer or Chamberlain. Alternatively: Noble Born- Student- Court Lawyer or Court Doctor - Treasurer or Chamberlain. Alternatively Born Noble- Courtier - Lady - Dame with 6 Perception if you want someone who has really high Court-wise & Noble-wise to go along with strong social skills and good Resources.

I've been finding all these tricky routes out through burning up some pregens for an intrigue-y scenario I'd like to run.

Chris

[technomonkey]

I'm not sure how easy it is on the human side, but I remember as a Dwarf you can get W6 Resources in 4 lifepaths.