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peteradkison
11-28-2010, 05:49 PM
Let’s say a fight breaks out. Any guidelines on how close the contestants should be to jump directly to Fight! rules versus having to close via an R&C sequence first? My instincts are that if you’re in a small building (like a bar or shrine) or in a typical dungeon crawl you can immediately jump to Fight!. Or perhaps you’re in an open area but the parties have approached each other to converse and then something goes sideways and a fight breaks out. So, in any of these situations is it okay to jump immediately to Fight! even if a player with a bow or spell lobbies for R&C first?

Assuming I’m correct on jumping immediately to Fight!, the next concept I’m trying to get my head around is whether there is some sort of advantage accrued to the individual who decided to escalate the encounter from “just talking” (if I can borrow some Dogs in the Vineyard nomenclature) to lethal conflict. Let’s say the PC’s and the bandits are within 10 paces of each other, chatting each other up and the bandits have underestimated the PC’s and are only halfway paying attention. Suddenly Notwen decides to cast The Fear to clear out the mooks so the party can rough up the leader.

It looks to me like I could/should immediately go to Fight! and roll initial positioning tests. But what if they are 20 paces apart? 30 paces? What's the rule of thumb for how far apart the parties should be before it's okay to skip R&C and jump immediately to Fight!'s initial positioning roll?

Going on, let's say we go directly to Fight! and the player lobbies, “Wait, shouldn’t I get some sort of time advantage because I started the fight? The bandits didn’t know I was going to cast The Fear and they didn’t think we were a threat because we’re with a smuggler, so how can they react before I do and get Too Close to Shoot by winning the positioning test?”

It does seem there should be some sort of advantage for the individual (not necessarily the entire party, just the one character) who attacks first. My instincts are to go right to initial positioning but give the individual who escalated the situation an advantage die or two based on how well I think he got the jump on the other party.

Thanks in advance,
Peter

luke
11-28-2010, 07:12 PM
I think your instincts are good.

Usually, we go to RnC when at least one group is kitted out with missile weapons and has the will to use them.

ThisIsVictor
11-28-2010, 07:18 PM
It does seem there should be some sort of advantage for the individual (not necessarily the entire party, just the one character) who attacks first. My instincts are to go right to initial positioning but give the individual who escalated the situation an advantage die or two based on how well I think he got the jump on the other party.

Check out the surprise section in the Fight! rules. (Don't have my books so I can't give a page number.) Also, drawing weapons takes an action so that's an advantage to the person who starts Fight! with a weapon out.

--Victor

Totally Guy
11-29-2010, 03:24 AM
When we've had this kind of situation we've had the person who was surprised by the fight test his steel to determine a number of missed actions.

It's quite fair, the battle hardened high steel guys don't hesitate for as long if at all. The more naive opponents can be readily dispatched by a surprise attack.

Thor
11-29-2010, 08:13 AM
As mentioned above, go with your instincts regarding whether it's a Range and Cover or a Fight! It's pretty contextual. If you really can't decide, I think it's fair to let the side that initiated the violence decide whether it happened at R&C range or Fight! range.

To get the drop on the other group, IMO it's not enough to simply be the first to escalate. If you want an advantage like that, you have to test. In a situation like you describe, I'd call on your players to make an Inconspicuous test with the intent of seeming non-threatening until it's too late.

It's a group test, as everyone has to pass or the gig is up, so it's a Slowest and Loudest situation. The player with the worst Inconspicuous (or lowest Will in the case of Beginner's Luck) has to make the Inconspicuous test and everyone else has to help. Obstacle is the Will of the opponents. Any opponent whose Will is met or exceeded has to make a Steel test against their Hesitation for surprise.

peteradkison
11-29-2010, 09:01 AM
Great, thanks for the advice, friends.

Peter

Paul B
11-29-2010, 10:10 AM
Speaking of instincts, it might be a good idea to have your bowman take an Instinct along the lines of "always engage at range first", with the notion that the bowman is smart enough to take up position at a distance when he recognizes the shit's about to hit the fan. Basically it's a de-meta'ed version of "always go to R&C before Fight!", right?