Let It Ride and armor damage

[Deliverator]

So, last night: Elf with 3 pieces of armor damaged in a Fight! Each piece of armor has lost 1 die. Elf has rich Dwarf friend buy her a Mending kit, uses her B3 Mending skill aided by Dwarf's Stuff-Wise + taking her time to fix her armor. 5 dice on Ob 1. So far, no problem? GM says to roll separately for each piece of armor. I (not involved in this, my PC isn't with the other two at the moment) call bullshit, that violates LiR, he says no, this is my ruling, I don't want to derail and argue, but after looking at the text of LiR again today, I'm pretty sure I'm right.

The only vaguely reasonable counterargument I can see here is that since there's no failure consequence other than not getting the die back, it's fair to make her roll 3 times. But that still doesn't sit easy with me.

Thoughts? Also, how would you handle it if different pieces of armor had taken different amounts of damage?

Matt

[zabieru]

Eh? Are you pissed at the other player or something? Your GM's interpretation is more favorable to the player (No serious chance of failure in either case, no artha expended, and three tests logged instead of one).

Sure, it's a little silly and boring, but how long does it take to pick up the dice and roll twice more?

I'm not really sure, but I guess I'd say that your GM is technically right but in that situation I'd make it one test and say yes to the other two (because to say that it's always one test causes problems: as you say, varying damage levels, and also if you have different armor types requiring different skills to fix, like a breastplate with leather pants).

[Deliverator]

He only let her log one test. Shoulda said that before.

Matt

[zabieru]

He only let her log one test. Shoulda said that before.

Matt

The correct response to that is "Motherfucker, I don't roll dice without logging."

That's a pretty clear sign that he knew he was asking for bullshit tests.

[luke]

Actually, it's a series test so it's only worth one test for advancement.

But I agree. I do not like that Mending rule.

Oh look what I found in my "notes"...

Mending Per/Agi
Mending is a useful skill. It encompasses the knowledge of the form and function of everything on the farm. This skill allows characters to fix, repair or darn just about anything.
Obstacles: Mending fences or socks, Ob 1. Making household repairs, Ob 2. Mending stuff broken on the road or at work, Ob 3. Mending something badly broken, Ob 4. Mending Armor: Lightly damaged (1D), Ob 1. Moderately damaged (2D), Ob*2. Badly damaged (3D), Ob 4. Shredded (4D), Ob 6. Ruined (5D), Ob 8.
FoRKs: Any appropriate craftsman skill could suffice.
Skill Type: Peasant Tools: Yes. Expendable.

[zabieru]

Huh. I guess so, but I have never used the series test rule outside of extended conflict mechanics, because I've never run into a situation so trivial that it was only worth logging one test, yet so vital that it required re-testing the same ability repeatedly.

There is an ambiguity in both the text in my book (which uses the format "First die, Ob1, Second die, Ob2 etc," don't know if that's a revision thing or what) and what you've given, though: is that based on the total damage or the worst location?

[Marius]

On page 184 - "Repairing Armor"


[...] Repairs are made to individual locations.

Mending: First die, Ob 1. Second die, Ob 2. [...]

I always understood this so that you have to test for each location separately.

[Totally Guy]

In play I have set the ob for the most challenging repair and added +1 Ob for have more than one piece to repair. But that was just a judgment call without reading everything through at the table.

[stormsweeper]

Huh. I guess so, but I have never used the series test rule outside of extended conflict mechanics, because I've never run into a situation so trivial that it was only worth logging one test, yet so vital that it required re-testing the same ability repeatedly.

Have you ever had anyone with multiple wounds to treat? Or multiple people being treated by one person in a scene?

[Deliverator]

Oh, hey, Stormie, that reminds me—one time earlier in the game, the same character whose armor had been damaged, she took 4 light wounds in a fight and went down. But I only had to roll once to treat her, arguing LiR—either I can bandage them all and she's fine, or we have to wait 24 hours for the wounds to heal.

Matt

[zabieru]

Have you ever had anyone with multiple wounds to treat? Or multiple people being treated by one person in a scene?

Hm. I don't think we've ever had one PC testing to treat multiple wounds in one scene, no. If it's circle-up-a-doctor time, I ain't really tracking the doctor's tests. And as far as the victim's health tests, I can't remember having multiple significant wounds on the same person from the same fight (a minor and a significant wound, sure, but I'll usually just let the little cuts ride with the big one).

I'm not saying it never happens. But I do think that a lot of the time, given the choice between invoking the series test rule and reframing the conflict (either by saying yes to everything but one test, or by reworking it into a linked test, or something), it's usually more interesting to reframe.

[Thor]

At BWHQ we treat and recover from wounds individually. And we test tool kits for depletion after each use. If you have four different wounds, I might run out of supplies before treating them all.

It doesn't really matter for Superficials and Lights, the consequences of failing treatment or recovery are not especially onerous. I don't think it's bad to lump them all together as a single test. But from Midi wounds on, each carries a nasty potential consequence. And each wound will heal at its own rate. As such, each wound merits its own intent.

I've been the guy treating someone with a Light wound, two Midi wounds and a Severe wound. It isn't pretty.

[Alex_P]

I've been the guy treating someone with a Light wound, two Midi wounds and a Severe wound. It isn't pretty.Is that how Petronax (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?10341) ended up with Gray Herbalism? :)

[Thor]

Is that how Petronax (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?10341) ended up with Gray Herbalism? :)

That's exactly how Petronax wound up with a Gray Hebalism!

[Tilde_See]

I've been the guy treating someone with a Light wound, two Midi wounds and a Severe wound. It isn't pretty.

Do you log for each one, or do you qualify it as a series and only log the most difficult?

[luke]

It is by definition a series test.

[Fuseboy]

Oo, that's news to me. Neato.

[Deliverator]

Wait, what are we talking about? Are we talking about healing or armor damage? What do you mean by "it," Luke?

And Thor—yes, I completely agree in re: wounds. The reason we LiR'd it that time was b/c she had taken 4 Lights and nothing worse. It seemed to me 3 pieces of armor each damaged by 1 die was analogous.

Matt

[Matthew]

It is by definition a series test.

I may be being dim here, but there's a separate repercussion for failing each of the tests, so I'm not sure I see why it would be bad to give three tests for advancement. They'll either be routine and so not that big a deal or they'll be difficult and/or challenging and the likelihood is that at least one will fail. Either way, it seems to me that the tests are earned.

If I think about it another way - if someone attained three light wounds in three separate fights over the course of three days, and each was treated separately, these would each earn a test for advancement, right?

If someone picked up three light wounds at the same time and you could treat only one before the herbalism kit ran out, then you'd log a test for that one, and then another test when a new kit was obtained and another wound was treated, wouldn't you?

[Thor]

Any time you're testing a skill over and over again (i.e., in a series) for the same outcome -- in this case to repair armor -- it's a series test. For the purposes of advancement, it's irrelevant whether there are separate consequences for each test. After all, in Fight! there are separate consequences for each Sword test, but it's still a series.

[Rafe]

I think the disconnect here is the difference between Let It Ride (one roll to rule them all) and a Series of Rolls (one test logged for advancement out of numerous rolls). Some people here seem to be trying to make them have mutant babies with one another. To them I say: Ewww, cut that shit out.

[Daniel H.]

I've been the guy treating someone with a Light wound, two Midi wounds and a Severe wound. It isn't pretty.
Thor, how many tests for advancement were recorded in this situation?

[Thor]

Thor, how many tests for advancement were recorded in this situation?

One test.

[Daniel H.]

Got it, thanks. I think I was confusing shade-shifting, which requires Artha, with advancement, which requires tests.

[Deliverator]

*Which* test did you log, Thor? The hardest one, I'm assuming (not relevant to my original question)?

Matt

[Thor]

*Which* test did you log, Thor? The hardest one, I'm assuming (not relevant to my original question)?

Yes, the hardest one. I think it was Difficult.