Elven Seafarers

[larkvi]

I wanted to ask about the elven Seafarer LPs from a design point of view, since I am playing a sailor and trying to design a couple of lifepaths for airship sailors in the Burning Airships game. Sailing is a big component of what my character does, so I wanted to understand the intent of the rules with regard to sailing and travel as best I can. There are a few issues I am having trouble getting my head around.

1. In general, there are a lot more skills in the Mannish Seafaring subsetting than the Elves have in their two seafaring LPs. Is it the intent of the rules that the whole variety of skills in Seafaring are necessary for the operation of ships (and that there are implied extra Elven LPs that have such skills) or that Elves do more with the more limited range of skills they have. Do Elven Seafarers do without Seamanship because they are different in flavour from Men, or is it implied that they need that skill? Is Ship Management interchangeable with Administration? What about all the various wises that speak to knowledge of the sea? Current-wise, Sea-wise, etc.?

2. How are Supplication to the Wind and Weathersong supposed to be used? It seems that Weathersong is much the better, as the singer may determine any time of weather, including levels of wind, and may add up to five dice to a linked roll by getting the prediction perfect, whereas Supplication to the Wind adds less dice for creating a stronger wind (paradoxically making a ship move faster in a lighter wind?), as one needs to exceed a higher obstacle. Are they redundant? Are they meant to be used together?

3. Which skill in the linked test is the final one, actually determining whether the ship arrives safely? Is Navigation/Slip of Currents the necessary skill, Rigging/Song of the Mariner, or Pilot? The obstacles for Navigation better imply the voyage, but piloting seems to be the logical last skill in sequence.

4. On the speed of boats: presumably, the advantage of generating extra successes over the obstacle in a sea voyage would be arriving sooner than expected, as one keeps in good winds, avoids danger, and properly manages one's points of sail. Elves, however, cannot allocate extra successes to reducing time taken ("Working with the Care of the Eternal", p. 87)--does that mean that well-piloted/navigated elven ships with good winds are not as fast as the same ship piloted equally well by Men?

To translate that more into game terms: assuming the Intent of test for sea travel is to arrive before Autumn, and the human crew generates 2 successes over obstacle, working quickly, whereas the Elven crew generates 10 successes over obstacle on an identical ship leaving at the same time, does the human crew take 80% as long as the elven one? (Assume they are not racing, so it is not a Versus test.)

[DarthMidget]

1. Sure.

2. Maybe.

3. That's up to your GM.

4. Which would work better for your campaign?

[Tilde_See]

While I like the spirit of Kyle's reply, I figured I'd toss in a less arcane cash die.


I wanted to ask about the elven Seafarer LPs from a design point of view, since I am playing a sailor and trying to design a couple of lifepaths for airship sailors in the Burning Airships game. Sailing is a big component of what my character does, so I wanted to understand the intent of the rules with regard to sailing and travel as best I can. There are a few issues I am having trouble getting my head around.

First and foremost, the intent of the rules is that you chat with your GM about your concept and what that means, and what the skills mean to him or her; that you all have pre-existing buy-in to the character you want to play. Everything else flows from there.


1. In general, there are a lot more skills in the Mannish Seafaring subsetting than the Elves have in their two seafaring LPs. Is it the intent of the rules that the whole variety of skills in Seafaring are necessary for the operation of ships (and that there are implied extra Elven LPs that have such skills) or that Elves do more with the more limited range of skills they have. Do Elven Seafarers do without Seamanship because they are different in flavour from Men, or is it implied that they need that skill? Is Ship Management interchangeable with Administration? What about all the various wises that speak to knowledge of the sea? Current-wise, Sea-wise, etc.?

First, see above. Second, what the difference in lifepaths tell me is the cultural differences between the elves and humans. Humans are huge bookkeepers, big micromanagers, and break down every skill into it's simplest form, when possible. Elves, contrariwise, have been doing things for so long, both as a race and individually, that they just meld lots of skills together, and they work together in a much more freeform way. They don't administrate on a ship, because everyone on the ship knows what they should be doing, and they do it. They don't have ship manifestos, because there are five elves on board and they all know what's on the ship, and the folk they're bringing it to know what they're bringing. I look through their skillsongs and spellsongs and find they have all they need. Yours and your GM's mileage may vary, so talk it out.

On wises, the description of skillsongs tells me that all skillsongs are also wises. They are "The songs of how things are done, and why we do them," and so that means that related wises are encompassed by them. But that's just me and my drift.


2. How are Supplication to the Wind and Weathersong supposed to be used? It seems that Weathersong is much the better, as the singer may determine any time of weather, including levels of wind, and may add up to five dice to a linked roll by getting the prediction perfect, whereas Supplication to the Wind adds less dice for creating a stronger wind (paradoxically making a ship move faster in a lighter wind?), as one needs to exceed a higher obstacle. Are they redundant? Are they meant to be used together?

I would call them both very curious, and need a lot of chatting with your GM about. Supplication, to me, lets you call up wind now, and what you need the wind for determines your obstacle. A light wind isn't going to shoot you across the Atlantic today, I don't care how many successes you get (inappropriate task). Weathersong lets you predict the weather ahead of time, so "Clear skies and a strong northerly wind in a bell and a half" would be valid, to me, but "The wind is really going to pick up in five, four, three..." would be less so. Then again, that's just me. Supp would also call up wind in an enclosed area, as far as I'm concerned, while Weathersong is a little more constrained to open air locations. Decide with your GM what works how.


3. Which skill in the linked test is the final one, actually determining whether the ship arrives safely? Is Navigation/Slip of Currents the necessary skill, Rigging/Song of the Mariner, or Pilot? The obstacles for Navigation better imply the voyage, but piloting seems to be the logical last skill in sequence.

Depends on the situation and the GM very much so. What's the intent, what's the situation, what are the beliefs that matter, etc. Very situational.


4. On the speed of boats: presumably, the advantage of generating extra successes over the obstacle in a sea voyage would be arriving sooner than expected, as one keeps in good winds, avoids danger, and properly manages one's points of sail. Elves, however, cannot allocate extra successes to reducing time taken ("Working with the Care of the Eternal", p. 87)--does that mean that well-piloted/navigated elven ships with good winds are not as fast as the same ship piloted equally well by Men?

To translate that more into game terms: assuming the Intent of test for sea travel is to arrive before Autumn, and the human crew generates 2 successes over obstacle, working quickly, whereas the Elven crew generates 10 successes over obstacle on an identical ship leaving at the same time, does the human crew take 80% as long as the elven one? (Assume they are not racing, so it is not a Versus test.)

As far as I'm concerned, that depends on the intent. That, and it means that elves just don't care about getting things done quickly in the same way humans do. That said, they would have lots of successes to spend on shipping patiently (what that would means could be any number of things). What's interesting?

Like you said, they're not racing, so what's the rush?

[luke]

1. Seamanship is an oversight. Ship Management isn't there because I imagined the Elves managed their ships and crews differently than Men. Perhaps Elven ships aren't quite indentured slavery and thus don't require such severe disciplinary codes.

2. I agree that they are not very well supported. This is an opportunity for you to get in there and make them your own.

3. That's up to you.

4. IIRC Elves are known for making epic journeys, not for ferry routes. Seafaring Elves are different than their counterparts from other stocks.

[larkvi]

Okay, thanks Luke. It seems like there is some system for sea travel implied by the Songs adding into specific skills for a linked test, and I was wondering if I had missed something and it was out there somewhere.