Mouse Guard Javelin Thrower?

[Skydut]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/134/4/6/Javelin_Mouse_by_d20plusmodifier.jpg

So I found this image on Deviant Art's website by a guy named Kyle Ferrin (Credit where credit is due.)

Anyway, this led me to say "WOW!' and then "How can my mouse do that?!"

So any help on ideas or gear effects are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Crookedleg]

Easiest way would to just craft or purchase a number of thrown weapons. Historically, most javelins were purpose built for throwing, but you could also craft a weapon with both spear and throwing qualities if you wanted a more versatile weapon. I figure that this would be the easiest way to go about it.

[Skydut]

But aren't spears already throw-able weapons?

I was also wondering what kind of resources would javelins be crafted from? Wooden splinters, metal rods, porcupine quills?

But I wonder what it would be like to carry all that stuff. Of course, I've always thought that the halberd was kinda bulky to carry around.

[Crookedleg]

Spears are not already throw-able. May you possibly be confusing them with staffs, which are throw-able? (If you look at the armorer factors, spear and thrown are listed separately. In order to craft a weapon with both the spear and the thrown trait would be an OB 7 armorer test).

As for materials, I think all of your examples would make sense (as would other materials, like bone).

As for how they would be carried, I think there is a number of options. You could just carry a number in your off hand, which was quite common historically. Some cultures would hold javelins as well as shield in there off hand. Or you could use a box quiver, like the mouse in the picture. Some javelins also had lengths of string attached to the end to increase the distance they were able to be thrown, so there may be a way to tie it to the character.

[Skydut]

Wow! You really know your history!

Yeah, I checked what you said and I kicked myself for not reading the rules closer. I just thought that you could throw a spear. (Darn D&D rules!)

Anyway... Ob 7 huh? Wow, that's high. But man, I'd still like to make this work.

I wonder if I should just stick with the basic weapons from the book and hope that when the boxed set comes out Crane & Pertersen made some new additions to the gear lists.

[Morgan Allen]

Spears are not already throw-able. May you possibly be confusing them with staffs, which are throw-able? (If you look at the armorer factors, spear and thrown are listed separately. In order to craft a weapon with both the spear and the thrown trait would be an OB 7 armorer test).
That doesn't make any sense. How in the hell is it that bog-standard staves count as throwing weapons and spears don't? Even if one allows that spears specifically designed for throwing have significant structural differences from those specifically designed for melee, the semi-disposable throwing variety can't be inordinately harder to make.

[luke]

Has no one else read Musashi but me?

[Etsu Riot]

Has no one else read Musashi but me?
I have not finished the first book yet. :p

[Skydut]

So I Wiki'd" Musashi" and "spear." This is what I got.

"The strategies listed in this discipline or book relate to situations requiring different weapons and tactics, such as indoor weapons. Musashi states that the use of halberd-like naginata and spears are purely for on the field, whereas the longsword and accompanying short-sword can be used in most environments, such as on horseback or in fierce battle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Five_Rings

Although I have not read Musashi's book, (and I know Wiki isn't always reliable) could you please elaborate on what his practices are meant to teach us about a Mouse Guard Javelin thrower?

[luke]

Absolutely nothing. I'm sorry for derailing your thread.

[Skydut]

Haha! It's all good. Nothing like chasing a few rabbits.

Still, javelins... man that would be awesome!

So Mr. Luke, any way of putting a "point" to this thread?

Staffs = Handy + 1D to feint, throw-able
Spears = +1D to maneuver, not throw-able

If I wanted to combine the 2, or just make a spear I can throw (which I'm guessing is closest to a javelin) am I able? Is the Ob of 7 a good number for this weapon?

[luke]

I would use the rules for making weapons. I think that illustration is cool, but I've never been compelled to play a guardmouse with javelins so I don't have any special insight.

[Morgan Allen]

Has no one else read Musashi but me?
*sighs* Fine, I'll pick up a copy. But Ob 7 seems high for the privilege of using essentially stone-age weaponry.

[luke]

I only see Ob 3 -- Thrown weapon.

MAYBE Useful, too.

But you're also not looking at this from the right angle. Stone age weapon, sure. But STONE AGE weapon, right? Not terribly effective in the paradigm of weapons. Thus, roll the dice and take your twists and conditions.

[Morgan Allen]

I only see Ob 3 -- Thrown weapon.

MAYBE Useful, too.
Huh. *whips out book* Looks like you're right... Cheers. Where'd that Ob 7 come from?

[Rafe]

Where'd that Ob 7 come from?

Your natural predisposition to be evil?

[Crookedleg]

The OB 7 came from me combining the armorer factors Spear (Armorer factor 3) and Thrown (armorer factor 4).

( Luke, I believe you may have misspoke. In this thread you said that thrown is OB 3, but comments you made in this post http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?7066-Creating-New-Weapons-with-Armorer , would imply that it is an OB 4 )

[Occasional Sage]

The OB 7 came from me combining the armorer factors Spear (Armorer factor 3) and Thrown (armorer factor 4).

( Luke, I believe you may have misspoke. In this thread you said that thrown is OB 3, but comments you made in this post http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?7066-Creating-New-Weapons-with-Armorer , would imply that it is an OB 4 )



Count where each factor falls in its list, from left to right. The first item in the list is worth 1, second is 2, third is 3, and so on.




Spears and Missiles (start counting at 2): Spear, Thrown, Missile


So a spear is Ob 2, and a javelin is Ob 3 by the text as I read it. If you want a javelin that also works as a spear, it becomes Ob 5.

That completely contradicts what Luke said in the linked thread though; he seems to take the starting point, then add on the list position on top of that (for spear as Ob 3, javelin as Ob 4, and the combo weapon Ob 7).

Also, is there a master list of item factors, so that one could compare Deadly vs Hard to Defend, without having to search out specific weapons with each?

[luke]

Give Michael Prescott a prize, he was right all along. I miscounted in that old thread. That's what you get for not double-checking the rules!

[Crookedleg]

Thank you for clearing that up Luke. I have been playing a Patrol Leader with armorer, and look forward to failing by a smaller margin then I usually do.

[Skydut]

So then to make a throw-only javelin, my armorer skill check I'm looking to pass is Ob 2?

But If I want to combo that javelin with spear, making it both a thrown weapon (Ob 2) and spear (Ob 3), it will be an Ob 5 armorer skill check?

[Crookedleg]

Yes, that is correct.

[Skydut]

Okay, a few last-minute question for the experts.

I decide to go the route of the Ob.2 throw-only javelin. I get into a scenario where I end up fighting a bullfrog. During the encounter, I start off the fight by lobbing a javelin into it's face from a few paces away. (So that javelin is gone.) The amphibian jumps my way closing the gap that was between us and now I am fighting for my life face-to-face.

Here's my first question. With the bullfrog looming in front of me, do I now follow the rules for a fighting style without any pluses or minuses? (i.e. Attack -, Defend - Maneuver - , feint - )

Second question. Since I threw my initial javelin, do I not have any time to draw my next weapon from the quiver to use? So I'm fighting with my paws only?

[Daniel H.]

1.) Yes. Weapons are color and bonuses on certain actions. There's no penalty for fighting unarmed, but you'd best describe your actions appropriately.

2.) I'd say yes, but also I think I've let players spend successes from successful Maneuvers on arming or re-arming themselves.

[luke]

Technicall, you change weapons between exchanges.

[Skydut]

So the scenario might play like this:

Action 1
Bullfrog = Maneuver (Jumps towards my position.)
Mouse = Attack (Throw the javelin at the frog.)

I now have the ability to draw a NEW javelin replacing the one I already threw.

Action 2
Bullfrog = Attack
Mouse = Feint

Action 3
Bullfrog = Defend (Cover his face with his front legs.)
Mouse = Attack (Jab at his face with a no bonus/penalty javelin.)

[luke]

No. After three actions are played, when you're choosing new actions, you can change your weapon.

[Morgan Allen]

Well, I finished reading Musashi, but I still have no idea what this has to do with throwing staves.. ...I apparently need to 'investigate this thoroughly'.

[luke]

Hm. In the version I read, there was a thrown staff.

[Skydut]

So my character Henson Burl has himself a set of five quivers. (Our GM is a great guy) Anyway, we haven't reached an obstacle needing him to launch them at any attackers, but for now, this character is my favorite that I am currently using.