Handling treasure and paying the bills for an "adventuring company"

[jb.teller4]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum; please feel free to move it if I put this in the wrong place.

So in this thread (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?10683-Campaign-Pitch-Chartered-ADventuring-COmpanies-(Burning-THAC0)) I talk about the rough concept we're going to be using in our upcoming Burning THAC0 campaign. One of the premises is that the PCs are the "Principles" in a larger Adventuring Company (they also have wagoneers, cooks, guards, etc. -- and eventually stuff like alchemists, healers, etc., when they can afford them). Each member of the Adventuring Company gets a certain number of shares (like, say, 6 each for the Principles, 1 for most of the support staff, but 2-4 for the more highly skilled support, like alchemists or whatever). They also have to give a large share of any treasure to the lord who owns the land the dungeon was on. You can read the thread I linked for more details.

My question is basically what's the best way to handle this? I definitely have no desire to count pennies, but I do want there to be a real chance to struggling financially (I want to take the Resources/Lifestyle Maintenance system and broaden it so adventuring feels half way like running a business and half-way like old-fashioned D&D treasure hoarding).

My rough idea is that the larger their Adventuring Company gets, the higher the Ob of their Lifestyle Maintenance tests gets. Plus, they'll have to check it at the end of each mission (or every 3 months if they're between missions).

Then there's the cut the lord takes. This should probably be something like an Ob equal to a third the number of treasure dice they got (with Bargaining happening every time in the Prize Courts)? I don't know if one-third is right.

I suppose there's also the question of how to handle non-cash treasure (like that gem or sculpture or magic sword or whatever)? How is it worked in to things like the split between the noble and the Company? (e.g., if a magic sword would be Ob 4 to buy is given to the noble as part of their cut, should it give 4 dice to the test to pay of the noble's share, should it add 4 successes, or some other approach?)

Also, the PCs are personally likely to start fairly poor and, being effectively treasure hunters, they're going to be using cash dice they get from treasure pretty heavily as they're building up their wealth.

I have to figure out the balance between how much treasure cash dice to give and what the Obs of the Lifestyle Maintenance tests should be.

I don't want to get too detailed, but I do want them to have to make choices like whether they should try to hire a few more guards or make do with what they have.

Anyway, so I guess there are a couple questions above:


Any suggestions on handling paying for the support staff (plus the cut that the lord takes)?
Any advice on balancing Lifestyle Maintenance Obs against the number of treasure dice given out?
How should the value of non-money treasure be treated?
Does it make sense to make them test for Lifestyle Maintenance after each mission instead of basing it on a certain timeframe (like monthly or yearly)?
Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Sorry the above is sort of a mess of half-formed questions and thoughts. I'm still feeling out the best way to approach this to get the right feel and fun.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or criticisms.

[Countercheck]

One way to handle it is, in addition to requiring a lifestyle maintenance roll, require a Company Maintenance roll. The Company has 0 resources, and in order to keep it together, they need to hit an obstacle based on how large and expensive the company is to maintain. +0OB if they're in unclaimed territory, +1OB if the lord is making normal demands, +2OB if the lord is making extraordinarily demands. The company rolls however many treasure dice the players allocate (and once spent, they are lost), and the players are permitted to help. Failure conditions include being kicked out of a lord's land, having some of your people held hostage against the balance of payment, your favorite servant quitting for a better job, the bearers mutinying, the discovery that your quartermaster has bought maggoty meat... etc. The players need to determine how many dice they will reserve for personal use, and how many they'll spend to keep the group together. The larger and more powerful the company, the higher the Ob to keep it together, and the more dangerous missions they'll need to attempt. I foresee Duels of Wits over whether to invest in the company, or whether to buy a new cloak.

If you want, you could even have successes over obstacle count as 1D of resources that can be used as help for any test, once per session, until they are lost through failure.

[luke]

In our THAC0 game, we each must pass maintenance tests based on our lifestyles on the road and what we own.

Rich maintains a kingdom, so that's Ob 10.
Thor and I maintain a small business -- THAC0 & Co. That's Ob 3 or 4.
Pete and Danny just maintain themselves as poor adventurers. That's Ob 2.

The "company" aspect comes in as we all generate funds and cash to help one another. I prefer this method to having a single central obstacle as it provides for individuality and nuance in the lifestyle tests.

-L

[Paul B]

What are the consequences for failing those maintenance tests? I mean other than the tax.

[luke]

I pretty much wrote out all of our tricks in the Adventure Burner.

But in short, we've lost gear, been rendered filthy and destitute and sick. Being sick for a whole season (as an Elf!) was the worst.

[jb.teller4]

I pretty much wrote out all of our tricks in the Adventure Burner.

I have Adventure Burner, but I haven't finished reading all of it yet. Obviously I'm going to need to go read the Resources section next...



What are the consequences for failing those maintenance tests? I mean other than the tax.

That's an excellent question, Paul. Primarily, I've been picturing it as a maintenance test, but for the company instead of just the individuals. So Tax has been the main thing I had in mind.

But when I started thinking about interesting failures, I've realized that there are primarily two things I want to highlight:


The Prize Courts: Every time they get back from a mission, they have to hash out in court what the lord and/or church are due (i.e. what's the Resources Ob for paying out their share?)
I want the company to be a shared source of income but also shared risk and expenses for all of the PCs

For the first part (the Prize Court), it's basically a Haggling DoW, except using legal skill(s) instead of Haggling (though Haggling can certainly be FoRKed or used for linked tests).

Then the group makes a single test to pay it -- one PC taking point, but every PC has to help (if they have Resources 0, then they're required to get a loan; this is not optional), plus they can dedicate as many cash dice as they want to the roll. Everyone gets a successful test for Resources advancement if they succeed. If they fail, there are all kinds of options (from simply Taxing everyone to putting them in debt to the lord and owing them a "favor" or future payments, to being thrown in debtors prison, to having all kinds of stuff go wrong in the company, like stuff breaking down because they didn't have enough left over to cover basic maintenance...). Plus, non-cash treasure, like magic items, make great failures and compromises (e.g. "fine, you've lowered the Ob by 3, but you have to throw in the Magical Mace of Guffin, too" for a major compromise, or maybe "You failed? Okay, you pay them off successfully, but that magic mirror you found turns out to be cursed...")

Whatever cash dice and/or non-cash treasure (like items) that they don't spend to pay the lord and/or church can be split between the PCs (I'll let them hash out how they do the split, with DoW, in-character arguments, grudges, etc. all perfectly kosher).

So the only thing I have to figure out is what the base Ob to pay the lord and/or church should be (with the Prize Court "haggling" test adjusting that as normal per the haggling rules). It feels like it should be based on how much they got (since the lord and/or church get a percentage rather than a flat rate). maybe the base Ob is 1/3 of the total cash dice the group got on the mission (with items and other non-coin treasure having a value expressed as dice that counts towards the total treasure... and can be given to the noble and/or church, effectively spending its value as cash dice and then it's gone). I don't know if 1/3 is the right level. Half seems too high (since that statistically means they take all of it usually, especially since I expect the PCs to mostly start poor or broke). I'm very open to suggestions here... :)

For the second part (the company as a shared expense), Luke's quote changed how I was thinking about it:


The "company" aspect comes in as we all generate funds and cash to help one another. I prefer this method to having a single central obstacle as it provides for individuality and nuance in the lifestyle tests.

So now I'm thinking it's simple. The Company has a Maintenance Ob to support, depending on how big it is (e.g. Ob 3 for a small company). This is not a shared or single Ob: Every PC has to roll against that Ob as part of their own lifestyle maintenance test, and if they fail, then their own Resources are Taxed, plus there will likely be other repercussions in the Company (like people quitting, stuff breaking or shifting to Poor Quality, etc.).

This is included in their total maintenance Ob, along with other lifestyle stuff (like the knight's horses and armor, the foppish dwarf's extravagant lifestyle, the priest's penchant for leaving offerings at every shrine or temple they pass, etc.), so each PC has their own maintenance Obs and can become wealthy or broke separately from their business partners.

While this means they all have to test against higher maintenance Obs than they otherwise would, they are also expected to help each other, plus they (hopefully) have some cash dice and the like saved up from their mission.

Yeah, they'll often have to choose between putting their cash dice into their maintenance roll or using it to buy a new horse or fix their armor or hire an instructor... life (and BW) is full of tough choices, isn't it? :)


Note: Part of me feels like paying the lord and/or church should just be part of the maintenance Ob for the company that each PC has to make, like Countercheck's ideas: +0 Ob for being out of a lord's land, +1 ob for a typical lord, +2 Ob for a demanding lord, etc. It's simpler and cleaner. The problem is that I can't think of a good way to do that and also have the Prize Court, and the accompanying haggling and scheming highlighted. So I think I'll keep them separate.