Zelbinian & TiresiasBC's PbP campaign planning thread

[TiresiasBC]

From Dustin's proposal posted here (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?11352-Two-One-on-One-Play-by-Post-Game-Proposals).

I just looked over the years-old background I wrote for the character originally, and a couple elements about the setting stood out. It's coated in D&D-centric lore, like the Feywild, the Summer Queen, the planes, etc. I'd like to just strip all that out and tell you what I've got without it. We both need to be interested here, though, so consider everything I'm stating as a proposal, a starting point for discussion.

So I've got the capital city of Rimenacht, a fortified citadel far enough north that it's dark part of the year. No name for the kingdom (etharchy?) itself yet. Does it need one? The elves there are about as cold as the environment; the settlement is so far north because as long as they can scrabble some agriculture, elves don't care about environmental temperature. So they're there because they don't want interference from outsiders like dwarves and humans. Xenophobic elves taking their inherent superiority perhaps a bit too seriously.

The house colors were orange and teal (http://colorschemedesigner.com/#3g21Tw0w0w0w0). They represented something. The teal, probably ice. God knows what orange represented. I might want to change this just on the principle of not being garish, but I'm not good with colors.

I've got three established characters. My brother, Safid, who is scheming / has schemed to force me out of the court, or at least made life at court uncomfortable. I've got my sword-singer mentor, Orestes. I've thought about whether it makes more sense to be the Sword-singer student of the King himself, making the eventual rupture that much more painful. Regardless, the Winter King has no name. This campaign wasn't really about exploring character backgrounds, so it wasn't important. It could even become a Thing: maybe you give up your name when you become Etharch?

Lastly, I've also got a description of the character. I've modified it to remove most of the D&D-isms. All of it is very subject to change; for example, if he has a low Forte and Power, he won't be as burly, but this character had a very high Constitution. I include it mostly because I think it could inspire further detail about the setting and situation.


I have silvery-white hair tied back in a ponytail, vivid blue eyes, and skin halfway between ice-colored and flesh-toned. My shape is sturdier and broader-shouldered than most elves, almost human-normal. There are softly-glowing teal and cyan tattoos covering about a fifth of my skin; the glyph on my right cheek and the lines following the veins in my arms in curlicues are the most obvious. Their brightness waxes and wanes, but they flash while I am singing spell-songs.

I favor leather armor in the form of a sleeveless jerkin over a sleeveless silk shirt. The silk helps keep wounds clean. I wear flexible fencing boots and a long black cape clasped at the neck with a lacquered pin in the shape of a snow leopard. While my clothes are of fine quality, I mend it myself and have added strands of orange thread throughout my armor and pants, along with a pronounced orange trim on my armor. I wear fingerless black leather gloves.

In short, I appear a Fëa dandy. I deem that a compliment.

Thoughts about what kind of setting you'd want to run, Dustin? Go to town. This background and description stuff is probably three years old; I'm not that sentimentally attached to more than the city and culture. And I like the phrase the Winter King (http://www.amazon.com/Winter-King-Arthur-Books/dp/0312156960/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316708725&sr=8-1). I blame Bernard Cornwell.

[Zelbinian]

Random thoughts:

Replace the orange with a deep, dark purple. In some cultures purple represents good judgment, so perhaps it means "pride", and perhaps the teal also stands for "clarity."

Dig the setting and the names and the feel of the place. And that the King becomes nameless. That's cool.

and I dig starting before you get kicked out, but I'd like to frame that initial situation better. Clearly your brother framed you for something or goaded you into doing something uncouth. We'll have to figure out what that was. (That's Belief material, FYI.)

The relationships and character description seem fun, but I'm deliberately glossing over that until you've burned this dude up - no use discussing stuff that won't actually exist. But based on some advice we both liked from another thread, let's start with Beliefs first - throw some at me and we'll go from there.

Oh, and as far as dice rollers... doesn't matter to me. You can physically roll dice on the table and just report the results that way if it's easiest for you. We'll just decide on a presentation format that is meaningful for us.

[TiresiasBC]

Well, let's see. Initial situation. I'm not an exile, but I've apparently done something gauche. I'm having a little trouble coming with something in between a minor faux pas and Exile-worthy offenses, something that it makes sense to leave about. It makes sense to me for the character to be goaded into something rather than framed, just because he's probably been dealing with this twerp brother's needling for centuries and some sort of explosion is inevitable.

Bits of ideas: I could be sent out on a make-work mission or a posting to nowhere, rather than actually exiled. Or an endless "patrol the borderlands" sort of assignment. Kicked out of Court, but not exiled. But why. Hm. I want something sharp.

How about Ye Olde Physical Violence? One too many challenges to my competence, one too many forked-tongued remarks, and Zev just smacks him a good one. I'd envisioned the brother as more of a courtier, more polished and therefore subtle in how he seeks to undermine Zev. Elves aren't much for prisons, but this isn't deadly assault or anything near it. It definitely makes Zev look rash and brutish. Not exactly qualities you want in a potential etharch!

More situation... I didn't mention orcs yet. What kingdom doesn't have enemies? So there are orcs relatively nearby, whom Zev and Rimenacht's armies have fought in the past. This make-work assignment could easily be to repel yet another orc incursion, which is necessary, but then stay on the frontier rather than return. This wouldn't sit well with someone as proud as Zev. He doesn't just want the victory; he wants to have a triumph when he succeeds.

Round One of Beliefs, using Yeloson's formula (http://bankuei.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/burning-wheel-beliefs-101/):

I will crush this orc incursion and send their warlord's head back to Rimenacht on a spike.
I will win back my father's favor in court by spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about my brother's intentions among the Althings and lesser nobility.
I will bear any burden and pay any price to maintain my standing in the eyes of my people.


Hm. Number one is too distant a goal, number two is imprecise, but I think number 3 works.

Round Two of Beliefs:

I will muster our forces and ride forth to stop the orcs in time to save <frontier town, village, or castle> from being despoiled.
I will win the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel to my faction to ensure I have friends who have father's ear.
I will bear any burden and pay any price to maintain my standing in the eyes of my people.


Yeah, I left #3 the same. I think I'm too attached to the wording to accurately assess if it's a good enough belief. Thoughts?

First thoughts for Instincts:

Never apologize.
Never let my sword away from my side.
Always wear my finest armor and clothing. Appearance is everything.


This is all approaching my brother very indirectly, but I haven't managed to think of any face-to-face confrontation that would accomplish much. It seems like we just have to pretend to get along most of the time, since we're family and royal, so it's really a war for supporters in the court. The biggest supporter being, of course, the Winter King, whose favor will determine the line of succession.

[Zelbinian]

Bits of ideas: I could be sent out on a make-work mission or a posting to nowhere, rather than actually exiled. Or an endless "patrol the borderlands" sort of assignment. Kicked out of Court, but not exiled. But why. Hm. I want something sharp.

How about Ye Olde Physical Violence? One too many challenges to my competence, one too many forked-tongued remarks, and Zev just smacks him a good one. I'd envisioned the brother as more of a courtier, more polished and therefore subtle in how he seeks to undermine Zev. Elves aren't much for prisons, but this isn't deadly assault or anything near it. It definitely makes Zev look rash and brutish. Not exactly qualities you want in a potential etharch!

How's this: maybe he humiliated you. You can fill in the details, but mayhaps your brother invited you to a party or something under the guise of burying the hatchet... but invited all his friends and none of yours. Over the course of the evening - and a lot of Mirrorwine - he and his friends insult you more and more brashly, ebbing away at your patience until... well, until you lose your temper and put one of his friends in the hospital for a week. And, of course, your brother wasn't actually drinking and he can tell whatever story he wants and his friends will back him up. And this probably isn't the first time he's mad you look bad, it's just the latest and the worst... finally something the Winter King can't ignore, even though he may like you.

I like the orc problem. It's a nice external machine I can use to focus your attention, divide your loyalties, and generally force tough choices upon you. All good stuff!


Round Two of Beliefs:

I will muster our forces and ride forth to stop the orcs in time to save <frontier town, village, or castle> from being despoiled.
I will win the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel to my faction to ensure I have friends who have father's ear.
I will bear any burden and pay any price to maintain my standing in the eyes of my people.


Your Beliefs are pretty good, per se, and I can work with them, but here are a few things to think about:

There is nothing in your Beliefs about your ultimate ambition - the throne. (Or regaining it, whichever.)
There is nothing in your Beliefs about who I see as the main antagonist here - your brother. The 2nd Belief from part one was pretty great - even better if you added your "next action" onto the end.
I'm not sure I buy that being sent into an important battle is a punishment. If the star goalie shows up drunk - again - the coach isn't gonna put him out there first string and then say he can't go out drinking with the guys after. He's going to make him sit on the bench and watch his team lose without him. Having your brother lead the charge and you being stuck guarding some podunk look out seems more fitting, but maybe that's just me.

[TiresiasBC]

Hell, I like that humiliation-overreaction story just fine as is. No changes necessary.

You're right about the absence of the throne and my brother in my beliefs. That was bothering me, too.

And I like the bit about being forced to sit out the game while my brother gets to participate in the main battle.

So how about this?


I will find a chance for glory to outshine my brother's mission in <whatever nowhere posting I'm sent to>.
I will win back my father's favor in court by spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about my brother's intentions among the Althings and Elders and win the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel to my side.
I will bear any burden and pay any price to ensure the Ice Throne will be mine.


Ice Throne? Not sure. It just came out.

Also, it just occurred to me the wording for Belief 3 might actually be from Arthas in Warcraft 3. Oh well.

(Edit: Or apparently, a JFK speech. The Arthas wording is similar.)

[Zelbinian]

Looking good! Go ahead and burn up your adventurer. We said 6 LP's right? No stats or skill exponents over 6 (which basically means I'm giving you permission to gray-shade stuff - I'd rather you be bad ass at something than have a character that won't grow unless you take down a dragon single-handedly).

[Zelbinian]

After you post your guy and we make sure he's all ironed out, I'll get to work on setting up the Tumblr.

[TiresiasBC]

You sure about the stats? Adding up the years and stat boosts of the lifepaths I intend to take, that would mean either discarding mental stat points or going down to a low grayshade. Totally cool with the skill cap, just not sure if it makes sense to have a G2 Will or something.

On that note, do you remember offhand if a gray Will adds to your Duel of Wits Body of Argument?

[Zelbinian]

Well you can have a G2 Will and a B6 Per... or you can balance it out more. You don't have to stick the other mental stat at 6. Honestly for your character I'd gray out Perception over Will - he's strong willed in that not-so-socially-acceptable way, right?

[TiresiasBC]

Good point. Okay, I'll see what I come up with and post it here before taking it to the Crucible.

[TiresiasBC]

Concept: Arrogant Elven Warrior-Prince

Character Name: Zev Subodai

Zev and his brother have been at each other's throats for centuries. Safed has never forgiven Zev for being the elder and thus the first in line for the Etharchy, but Zev is just as determined to hold onto his birthright as Safed is keen to subvert it. Zev has fought in the frequent wars against the nearby orc clans, while Safed has used his time building influence and a following at court. Following a party at which he got Zev drunk and goaded him, Zev lost it and put one of Safed's closest allies in the infirmary for a week. The Winter King cut Zev out of the expedition to expulse the most recent orc incursion and put Safed in his place, dispatching Zev to Glacier's Edge, a border with the orcs that has seen no action in decades. Zev now prepares to lead a detachment to Glacier's Edge and seeks to minimize his brother's influence in his absence. The Winter King is notoriously difficult to read, but Zev's efforts may already be too late.

Lifepaths: Born Etharch -> Attendant -> Second -> (Lead to Protector Subsetting) -> Sword Singer -> (Lead to Etharch Setting) -> Prince -> (Lead to Protector Subsetting) -> Captain
Age: 358

Stats: Pe: G5 Wi: B4 Ag: B6 Sp: B6 Po: B4 Fo: B5

Attributes: Re: B6 Ste: G4 He: B6 MW: B10 Grief: B4 Hesitation: 6 (3 for fear, death, or pain)
Circles: B3 (possibly B4)
Resources: B4

PTGS: Su: B3 Li: B6 Mi: B7 Se: B8 Tr: B9 Mo: B10

Skills: Armor Training, Mounted Combat Training, Shield Training, Ballad of Rage B2, Bow B4, Brawling B4, Command B3, Elven Script G2, Etiquette B5, Lament of the Fallen B2, Observation G2, Oratory B5, Paean of Deeds B2, Riding B3, Silent Fury B3, Song of Bonding B2, Song of Burning Bright B2, Song of Lordship B2, Song of the Sword B3, Sword B6, Tactics B5
Traits: Calm Demeanor, Etharchal, Fea, Fearless, Lesson of One, Prince of the Blood, Sword of the White Tower, Sworn to the Lord Protector, (Born Under the Silver Stars, Essence of the Earth, Fair and Statuesque, First Born, Grief, Keen Sight), Xenophobic, Friend to the Arctic

Gear: Elven Arms (sword, cavalry saber), RotM Bow, Elven Light Mail, Elven Steed ("Glory"), Elven Bread, Elven Clothes, Elven Finery, Traveling Gear, Spangenhelm (I believe this is the only 3D armor helmet so it would go with Light Mail, but this is to remind me about the +1 Ob Perception and Observation penalty), Target Shield (comes with armor, again)
Property: Apartment in the Citadel

Affiliations: 1D affiliation with the Elven Etharchs (nobles), 1D Affiliation with the Swords of the White Tower (sword singers) - both from traits
Reputations: 3D Reputation as the Winter King's Champion, 2D Reputation as the Sword-Singer student of the Winter King (from trait)
Relationships: The Winter King (father, immediate family, powerful), Safed Subodai (brother, rival, immediate family, significant), Miriel Subodai (sister, minor, family)

Beliefs:

I will find a chance for glory to outshine my brother's mission while I am in Glacier's Edge.
I will win back my father's favor in court by spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about my brothers intentions among the Althings and Elders. As a first step, I will undermine my brother's hold on the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel and win him to my side.
I will bear any burden and pay any price to ensure that the Ice Throne will be mine.


Instincts:

Never apologize.
Always have my sword unsheathed when in dangerous areas.
Always wear my finest armor and clothing. Appearance is everything.


I've used up every last one of my 170 Resource Points, and I'm at 47 points spent on Property and Relationships. Shall I round up to 50 and add one to my Circles? Your call.

Miriel was an idea I had: wouldn't it be interesting if there was a younger sister both Safed and Zev adored but who wanted peace in the family and the realm? Seems like it might make the scale of events more human, and it's someone who is at cross-purposes with both Safed and Zev, someone who would actively avoid choosing either side and potentially try undermining whoever is being most aggressive or successful.

Let me know what you think needs changing.

[Zelbinian]

Yup! We're nearly there. Few quick things:

- Our discussion of the setting leads to two cultural traits I'd like to add. "Xenophobic (Ch)" and "Friend of the Arctic (Dt)" - the latter allows you to ignore obstacle penalties caused by cold temperatures, while doubling penalties caused by hot conditions.
- RP points spent on property and relationships affect Resources, but either way, your character doesn't really need the extra point, does he? ;)
- Come up with a next action for that second Belief so I have a nice initial bang to work. Something like "First I will..."
- That 2nd Instinct really isn't necessary. I have no interest in fucking with your sword just to spite you. :) I mean, you're an Elven Sword Singer Captain - of course you have your sword with you. Feel free to keep it if you just can't think of anything else, but.. yeah.

[Peregrine]

Zel pg 97. Starting circles bonus.. If a player spends 50 or more resources points on property (not gear) and relationships, his base starting circles is raised by one.

[TiresiasBC]

I would say my Circles could use a little help. You'd think a Prince would be better at finding people willing to help him! But maybe my charming personality puts them off. Anyway, it's still your call, Dustin.

Good thoughts about cultural traits. I do question the bonus to the second one - I think I already get that from an Elven common trait. "Essence of the Earth: Elves do not feel the effects of earthly cold and heat as do men." (BWG 139).

If we want to say we're so acclimated to the cold that we do in fact suffer in tropical climes, that's fine. I just want to point out the already-existing trait.

I take it convincing the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel to join my side isn't sufficient? I'll work on figuring out another next step. Maybe just undermining my brother's influence over him?

I'll try to think of a more character-building instinct, then. Not sure exactly what that would be, so I'm open to suggestions.

[TiresiasBC]

I reworded the second Belief so it's hopefully more clear and changed my second Instinct to something still sword-related but hopefully more useful. Also added the two cultural traits.

[Zelbinian]

Hah, you guys are right about the starting Circles bonus. Never even noticed that. B3 ain't bad, and given that finding people with similar station as you incurs no penalty, you're already set up to find some pretty awesome characters with ease as long as you're not too picky about exactly who they are or when you find them.

Yeah, that die trait wanders into Essence of the Earth territory, but it actually negates some of it, so we'll keep it. I figure your particular clan has lived in the extreme cold so long that heat would make you a bit uncomfortable.

And yes, that 2nd Beliefs is clearer to me now. :)

And that 2nd Instinct is now money - you'll get artha with it.

Speaking of artha, give yourself the standard 2 F and 1 P and throw this guy in the Crucible. It's a busy weekend for me, but as soon as I can I'll start the new tumblr and let you know! Excited to start this.

[TiresiasBC]

I'm excited too!

Posted here (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?11370-Zev-Subodai-Warrior-Prince-of-Rimenacht&p=114870#).

I mention this in the Crucible post, but just so you know, Zev doesn't necessarily need to stay a bastard forever. I'm open to developing however his Beliefs and the situation go. I think the possibility of him either becoming a better person through his experiences or a far more sinister one is what excites me most about the character. If there's pillaging and slaughter, it will likely be secondhand through orders given ("ravage the Palatinate") rather than roleplaying out the hacking and slashing, you know? I'm okay with dark characters, but I'd rather be like Christian Bale in Batman Begins (only with killing) instead of Christian Bale in American Psycho, if that makes sense. Even if we take the Path of Spite (http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/images/1/13/Path_of_Spite.pdf) (which, if you haven't read it, you should sometime. It's pretty great, and pertinent to Zev).

Also, a minor preference that hasn't come up: I'm not really big on roleplaying romance in a game, especially a public online one. Doesn't mean I don't think it'd be cool for there to femme fatales and temptations along the way. Even succumbing to temptation is okay. I'd just like it to be a minor element, if it comes up at all. And I'm fine with it not coming up, too.

Tangentially, what do you want to call the campaign? We need a kickass title. I was thinking "Paradise Lost" because of the themes of ambition, pride, and being cast out from a position of preeminence (I'm thinking Satan's fall here, not man's) and because a civil war in heaven (ie. among immortal elves) is certainly one way things could go. Plus Rimenacht is hardly paradise, so it amuses me.

Something that integrates the character name could be good, too, though I haven't thought of one that wouldn't simply be derivative of "The Ballad of Hal Whitewyrm." Rime means ice and is an alternative spelling for rhyme, though everyone on the Internet would simply think we simply misspelled rhyme, so that's no good. Plus, still derivative.

Also, I just thought of the worst pun ever. Forgive me, but I must share: "Paradice Lost." Let's all say it together: "ugggghhhh."

[TiresiasBC]

I miscalculated my Steel and therefore Grief, but I corrected it on the Crucible post. B6 and B5 now, respectively.

[Zelbinian]

I *thought* your Grief was a might low for such a badass Captain. :p

Oh, btw, alternate titles if you want the character's name out of it: "Requiem in Ice" Or if you wanted to go full-on Latin "Requiem in Glaciem."

[TiresiasBC]

Yeah, I kind of wish my Grief was one higher, even! Then I'd have a lower Ob for Song of Burning Bright and Ballad of Rage would start at B3. Alas, unless Zev lived among non-elves or didn't know any laments, it's out of my hands. Back when I thought his Perception might not be grayed, having a Per of 6 would also knock it up one notch, but alas, G5 was what I settled on. Oh well, I'm sure you'll try to drive my Grief up during play. ;)

Hm. I like where you're going with that and I greatly respect that you used Latin (nobody can ever use too much Latin), but they don't flow off my tongue as well as I'd like. How about "Frozen Requiem?" And I don't mind if we use the character's name, too. "Zev Subodai's Frozen Requiem" works for me, or even.... hm. Since this is basically about conflict among a royal family and its consequences, how about "House Subodai's Frozen Requiem?"

Thoughts?

I also like "Subodai's Requiem" as it is right now. It's short, simple, and sweet. But I think I like "Frozen Requiem" more, if you're down with it. Also short and sweet.

[Zelbinian]

Went for "A Frozen Requiem." Somehow that just makes it better. Oh, now that I'm thinking out my first move, I do have one question: you've already got Beliefs about your new posting, but you said that you wanted to touch on the events just before that happened... should I just narrate that? It'd almost be cool to do a Flashback later, but that doesn't seem like it'd work well in Burning Wheel (unless we did it purely with roleplaying).

[TiresiasBC]

I like it. It does make it better.

Well, if I'm going to talk to the Althing of Rimenacht Citadel, it'll have to be before I leave, because that would be in the city. I was hoping to run a few errands, maybe Circle up a few people (does the Lord Protector like me, for instance? An inquiring mind wants to know. One Circles test away!), and if I was really lucky, see if I can find a way to acquire Starlight before I leave for the front.

I doubt I'm that lucky. I'd have to find one hell of a gemsmith.

Anyway, yeah, I'd sort of envisioned making the rounds before departure, paying respects, probably having one last argument with the Winter King, etc., but if you think it'd be better to leap straight to the frontier posting, we can do that too. I'll just need to change my second belief to something more suitable for Glacier's End.

Edit: a flashback to the events that precipitated me getting kicked out would totally be possible, though, so long as we establish in advance what I do (I punch his minion, we know that), but with no rolls.