Enchanting questions

[spring_violet]

Eruditus can't connect to the forums from work - but that doesn't stop him from asking questions :lol:

He would like to know if there are spells involved in Enchanting and if anyone has approached Enchanting yet?

Thanks.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Heya Spring! Enchanting is not yet ready for prime time. Luke has been working on a Wheel of Enchanting, but it is not yet ready to go. It's been used a few times in play, with mixed results.

Soon...

[Mickeroo]

Is there anytihng that we can do in the meantime if someone wants to go enchanting? A rough measure or anything? Like, how strong should enchanted things be?

[Redoid]

I see you have been enticed into Enchanting by the mention in the revised books that Enchanting was already available for download :) I have, too, and I'd really like to see how it's done. In hte meantime, all we can discuss is: do we want to the power of Enchanting to be in the hands of players? It has a deep impact on the setting, because if magic items are too easy to do, everyone will wonder why it's not a common facility... And if it's ludicrously difficult, it's equivalent to make it an NPC-only ability.

Thor, when you speak of mixed results, would you care to elaborate? What are the problem you ran into with enchanting? A problem of balance?

[Mickeroo]

Ok, so to take the pressure of of the game designers, lets make our own enchanting rules! Anyone have any ideas?

I would look at my DND books for some sort of reference but those have been packed away since I got my revised edition...so I really have no idea about how to balance something like that.

[Kublai]

What can I tell you? There's gonna be a Wheel of Enchanting, most likely, and it's gonna consists of facet-like pieces. Each facet will have an associated Obstacle and Time requirement. Put all the pieces together and you'll have your obstacle and how long it takes to make it.

So far, the items have crazy high obstacles and take forever to make. One fiery arrow took something like 8 days and might've had an Ob 8 to create, I think. So be prepared to use these only in long-haul situations as they stand now. Just like the Abstractions, I suppose!

Whatever the final form, the coolest part is the need to imbue the item with traits from a relevant source. These sources tend to be monster bits! I see a lot of fun, little side quests trying to supply your party's wizard with Pixie Dust and Troll Skin!

[Mickeroo]

I have no problem with them taking a while. A wizard in my game was planning on spending 3 months of off time enchanting things. Is there a way to just modify the abstractions to have a permanent effect? Say, add a little to the obstacle, set a certain amount of time, and say it's enchanting?

[Kublai]

There's always the use of the "Permanent" facet as is for the time being. Hellooo Ob 10! Got Deeds, I hope?

[Mickeroo]

Maybe it would be an ob10 Sorcery test, but if you use enchantment, maybe you can get a discount?

[Mickeroo]

SO how goes progress on the enchanting rules? I tried making up something using abstractions but I fear they might be too powerful.

[eruditus]

It has a deep impact on the setting, because if magic items are too easy to do, everyone will wonder why it's not a common facility... And if it's ludicrously difficult, it's equivalent to make it an NPC-only ability.


I see this answer as one of resources, and skill specialization.

Most folk just don't get to the levels required to produce magical equipment.

I also think the balance lies in that there should almost always be a mundane way to accomplish the task at hand, thus most folk do not see a need to spend the time and money to go the magical route. If a person can be transported a hundred miles on a broom or carpet, it should cost at least as much if not more than hiring a caravan or on horseback. Sure, the broom will be faster and avoid many dangers, but the horse cost relatively little to maintain.

And then there's tax :)

[Russell Hoyle]

No word on enchanting?

I have a sorcerer champing at the bit to make some fancy magic things!


Cheers
Rusty

[khelek]

Don't forget we have enchanting like rules in Antiphon Union, the Elven verison of Enchanting. Sorcery will be more difficult and longer as in the setting humans are non-magical.

don't hurt me because I brrough up elven magic and human magic in the same sentance.

[Russell Hoyle]

good thinking, i will try to bodge something together in the interim

cheers
rusty

[Thor Olavsrud]

If you want super quick and dirty enchanting, try this:

Step 1: Go find yourself a body part or similar of a creature or human that has the trait that you wish to instill in an item. Want to create a Wand of Dragon's Breath? Go out and get the lungs or fire-breath gland of a dragon. This is called the Antecedent. It bears the Dragon Breath Trait (see Monster Burner).

Step 2: Create or otherwise acquire the item in which the magic will be housed. For instance, the wand. It has a Resources Ob equal to the value of the trait. Dragon's Breath is a 9 pt Die Trait, therefore the wand would be Resources Ob 9. This represents buying the precious materials that will be made into the item. You can use an appropriate craft skill to reduce the cost, up to half the Resources Ob. So for your wand, you might choose to make up to an Ob 4 Carving test (you're making the wand), and only require Resources Ob 5 worth of precious materials.

Step 3: Once you have the housing, it's time to enchant the item, using the Antecedent. Use the following spell:

Sorcerous Enchantment, Ob 3 + Trait point value, 437,500 Actions


Element: Arcane Ob 4, 10 Actions
Element: Earth Ob 1, 6 Actions
Impetus: Create Ob 6, 32 Actions
Origin: Personal Ob 0, 1 Action
Duration: Permanent Ob 10, 500 Actions
Area of Effect: Single Target Ob 1, 2 Actions

Arcane-Permanent (Ob 7, 255 Actions)
Create-Single Target (Ob 3.5, 17 Actions)
Earth (Ob 1, 6 Actions)
Personal (Ob 0, 1 Action)

Ob 9, 140 Actions

Cap
Ob 8, 140 Actions

Extension
Ob 7, 700 Actions

Extension
Ob 6, 3,500 Actions

Extension
Ob 5, 17,500 Actions

Extension
Ob 4, 87,500 Actions

Extension
Ob 3, 437,500 Actions

Finalization
Ob 3 + Trait Point value, 437,500 actions

The Obstacle = 3 + the trait point value you are trying to instill. So the Wand of Dragon's Breath would be an Ob 12 enchanting test. It would take about a year and change to enchant.

You could, of course, cast Patiently and Carefully or Hastily, as necessary.

[Kublai]

I really dig that idea, Thor, but that Ob is absolutely insane! Ob 12 is pretty much impossible for a player to cast and resist. The time to cast will also make it out of the range for your standard campaigns. Also, this system completely negates the Enchanting skill, which is what people really want rules for.

Why not simply make the Ob equal to the Trait cost and have them make an open-ended Enchanting roll?

[Thor Olavsrud]

I really dig that idea, Thor, but that Ob is absolutely insane! Ob 12 is pretty much impossible for a player to cast and resist. The time to cast will also make it out of the range for your standard campaigns. Also, this system completely negates the Enchanting skill, which is what people really want rules for.

Why not simply make the Ob equal to the Trait cost and have them make an open-ended Enchanting roll?

Look again Pete. It's that high an Ob because Dragon's Breath is an 9 pt trait. It's a really powerful item! A Ring of the Cat (with the Dexterity of the Cat trait (a 2 pt trait)) would be Ob 5.

The time can be reduced by working Hastily.

Also, this whole thing uses the Enchanting skill (with Will). What other skill would it use?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Anyway, yes, this system is krunky as hell. The eventual Enchanting system will be much cleaner.

Some notes to keep your enchanters from dying:
1. Spell Weaver applies to this system. To use the Enchanting spell, use your Will + Enchant skill.

2. Shunt Matrices (http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=A_Sorcerer%27s_Necessary_Bits) are incredibly useful.

3. Your Enchanter's apprentices may Help, both on the Enchanting test and the Tax test. Helpers suffer the same effects as the caster on a failed Tax test.

4. I showed you how I distilled the abstraction. You can redistill the spell (using the Abstraction chapter) for Enchanting spells that aren't permanent. That will significantly reduce the Ob and Actions of the spell.

[valvorik]

title says it all, would also be interested in any feedback so far on the bits of sorcery such as shunts

[luke]

Are you sure you're not asking about necromancy? Please don't resurrect dead threads.

-L

[valvorik]

Sorry, wasn't sure how old thread had to be in order to be "stale".

I was referring to the Wheel of Enchanting referred to on page 165 of the CB as being available online.

Please feel free to delete my post if inappropriate or PM me a "smack".