Some Psychic Powers to make your game more interesting!

[Fizban]

New lifepathes:
Human Outcast
Born psychic 8yrs 2trt/3res +1 men peasent, villager, city skill: 3 general; Psychic*
Psychic Apprentice 4yrs 1trt/5res +1 men peasent, villager, city skill: 2 general.
Psyonic 2yrs* 1trt/5res +1 men peasent, villager, city skill: 3 general; Psychic*

Psyonic: For being Psyonic you must have one of the above lifepathes (you can't have both).

Dwarven Outcast:
Psychic Apprentice 10yrs 1trt/7res +1 men any skill: 2 general
Psyonic 5yrs* 1trt/7res +1 men any skill: 4 general; Psychic*

Psyonic: For being Psyonic you must have the "Psychic Apprentice" trait.

Elven Wilderland
Born psychic 20yrs 1trt/3res +1 men any skill: 3 general; Psyonic Grief*
Psychic Apprentice 50yrs 0trt/5res +1 men any skill: 2 general.
Psyonic 20yrs 1trt/5res +1 men any skill: 2 general; Psyonic Grief*

Orcan Servant of the Dark
Born psychic 10yrs 1trt/3res +1 men any skill: 3 general; Psychic*
Psychic Apprentice 10yrs 0trt/5res +1 men any skill: 2 general.
Psyonic 5yrs* 1trt/5res +1 men any skill: 2 general; Psychic*
Psyonic: For being Psyonic you must have one of the above lifepathes (you can't have both).

Psyonic: For being Psyonic you must have one of the above lifepathes (you can't have both). Psyonic Elven Grief

trait is their Psyonic ability. It is determind and improve like Grief, but grants the Psyonic powers instead.

______________

The Psychic Trait:The character have starting Psychic ability of half her will, +1 for every extra-Psyonic lifepeth she got, but never more then 1.5 times her will stat. Things a charachter can do with Psychic:

Telepathy - Ob 1-4 (depends on the distance): Mind-talking. If the target's language is unknown, +1Ob.

Telekinesis - Ob 1-10 (dependce on weight and distance): The ability to move things in the air by will power, Including living targets (Ob for flying: 4).

Teleporting - Ob 5-10 (depends on number of targets and distance):Moving from one point to another in seconds.

Mind Control - Ob=target's will +?: The Psyonic can control someones mind, starting with simple commands, and up to full control (with high Ob, of course).

Astral Travel - Ob 4: The Psyonic can travel with his soul only, lefting his body behind in a trance. The soul is invisible to mortals, and can travel by walking and flying as well. While in trance, the Psyonic obtain the following powers: Telepathy, Teleporting (with -4 Ob to success). In adition, the soul can enter to a living body, and see and feel what that body feels, and it can talk to him telepathicly without a check, but not control it, unless it makes a successful Mind Control check (when the base Ob is only half the target's will). Any way, the soul can't stay without a body, so if the original body is dead, the soul will disapear unless it "steals" someone else's body in 24 hours. If that happens, the Psyonic get's the new body's physical ability and retain all the other statistic.

Minor Miracle - Ob 5: as the Faith power.

Miracle - Ob 10: as the Faith power.

Psychic Attack Mods:

Psyshield(def): as block, but the psyonic keeps any success that wasn't used (even if he wasn't attacked). can't use this mod until all the success are off.

Psycharge(neu): teleporting with high force into the enemy. base Ob is 5 (teleporting), but the target gets no Natural Defence.

Psydisarm(agg): as Disarm but using psychic ability.

Psylock(neo): a mind-attack, working like Lock, but using psychic ability, and will for Natural Defence. can be performed from the outside.

Brain-Blow(agg): like melee attack with a weapon of that stat: fast, add 2, power 0, while IMS is determined by Will, and there is no way to block the attack except of Psyshield.

Psychic actions are open-ended. For each action spend on concentration, the Ob is droped by 1. The GM decide the minimum Ob for making the action, but it would never be less then Ob 2.

What do you say about it? I know I usully make too strong systems, but I hope this one is ok... or at least most of it is ok... :oops:
Ready for proposes and improvements,
Fizban.

[Mickeroo]

I was actually thinking of making a superhero setting for BW, but then decided to just make my own system (no offense BW staff). By the way, anyone know where to go for good info on that kind of thing?

I'd say brain blow might be a little too powerful, as a psychic will probably have a b6 will or so, and a hit is guaranteed against any non-psychic, so if you have an agressive stance psychic with a b5 psychc ability, that's going to average a b6 wound each action. Sounds too powerful. Also, teleport should probably have a lower possible obstacle for close distances in line of sight. But then again, the teleport thing might just be because I saw X2 last night, and Nightcrawler was freaking awesome. Sounds cool though.

[Fizban]

Ok, what about this:
Brain-Blow(agg): like a melee attack with a weapon of that stat: fast, add 1, power 0, while IMS is determined by Will, and there is no way to block the attack except of Psyshield. The base Ob for this attack is the target's Will.

And about the teleport, remember you can consetrait for lower Ob.

Oh, and I think I better add this rull:
When concetraiting, the Psyonic is limited. he can't do anything but staying in air (if he used telekinesis before), and if he get hurt, he must make a will test against Ob of the damage level, or lose concentration.

And another rull i forgot: the Psyonic must sustain his powers to keep them working (all but Telleport, (because it's instant) and Astral Travel). For each power he sustaining he keeps one Will dice acide, like spellcaster, and whenever he is getting hurt, he must make a concentration test to keep sustaining his powers. Psyonic can't keep powers while asleep.
For keeping Mind Control, The Psyonic must make a high Ob test (2xtarget's will or more), and then the change will be permanent.

note: while in trance, the body counts as sleeping.


BTW, I thought about making a modern and superhero system for burning wheel myself, but I'm too lazy to complete it...

[Mickeroo]

That sounds much better. But one more question, does the psychic get all of those abilities? Or do they each cost some sort of resources like spells do?

[Fizban]

Here is the solution I thought about:
When creating a psychic character, he knows only one set of powers for each lifepath he have that grants Psychic. To learn a new set after starting play, the character must learn it as Martial Arts with Ob 5. The sets are:
Telepathy (only Ob 3 to learn after starting the game);
Mind Control, Psydisarm, Psylock, Brain-Blow (must have Telepathy before taking this set);
Telekinesis, Psyshield;
Teleporting, Psycharge;
Astral Travel (Telepathy, Teleporting, and Mind Control may be used while using this ability any way);
Minor Miracle, Miracle (Psyonics can't choose this set, but gets it automaticly after having all the other groups above);

[Drozdal]

Couple of questions:
- Why do you have to create new "born lifepath" for psionics? "Psionic Affinity" or "PSI talent" general trait IMHO, would allow a lot simpler implementation of this idea in the game world (Born psionic LP's would not be needed).
- Could You explain what "Psyonic Grief" means? Do Elves use their Grief as their Psychic Power?
- Dwarfs do not have Born Psychic Lifepath.
- Why only Outsact setting allows You to develop Psychic ability? This does not make any sense, the way I see this is that every newborn has small chance of having PSI talent (and You just have to spend some trait points to get it).
- As for different Psi talents: Why not treat them as Natural magic from Monster Burner, where every talent is a separate skill?.
Psydisarm(agg): as Disarm but using psychic ability. If you based your maneuvers on martial conflict then disarm should count as an neutral not aggresive one. But what is the purpose of PSI Disarm anyway? You could do the same thing with telekinesis, simply by removing object from your opponent hand.

And all this mean that PSI combats will use "stances"? Come on. I feel like You're for some strange reason trying to make it way too complicated. For me it PSI Conflict is all about knocking the other Psion unconscious, or burning his brain to a crisp in the matter of seconds. Forte seems like a perfect stat for resisting PSI assaults.But on the other hand what do I know. :)

[Fizban]

OK, Answers:
Couple of questions:
- Why do you have to create new "born lifepath" for psionics? "Psionic Affinity" or "PSI talent" general trait IMHO, would allow a lot simpler implementation of this idea in the game world (Born psionic LP's would not be needed).
Some people born with the ability, whether they want it or not. Others work hard for learning how to use their inner power.

- Could You explain what "Psyonic Grief" means? Do Elves use their Grief as their Psychic Power?
Yup. And they can't use it for the regular "faith power".

- Dwarfs do not have Born Psychic Lifepath.
For some reason I just couldn't imagine a dwarf born with Psy-powers. If you want this lifepathe, it's not so complex to make it yourself.

- Why only Outsact setting allows You to develop Psychic ability? This does not make any sense, the way I see this is that every newborn has small chance of having PSI talent (and You just have to spend some trait points to get it).
The reason those lifepathes count as outcast is because usually the Psy-power users count as freaks. If you want to be a villager-born psyonic, just use it's leads.

- As for different Psi talents: Why not treat them as Natural magic from Monster Burner, where every talent is a separate skill?.
I do not have the Monster Burner yet. I guess that is the reason. Not that I find my rulls too problematic, though.

Psydisarm(agg): as Disarm but using psychic ability. If you based your maneuvers on martial conflict then disarm should count as an neutral not aggresive one. But what is the purpose of PSI Disarm anyway? You could do the same thing with telekinesis, simply by removing object from your opponent hand.
In my book it says "Disarm Strike (agg)". any way, the idea is (and sorry for not noting that) to make the target suffer from pain in her arm until she must drop it, it's a kind of brain-attack. You can use telekinesis to do so, but don't forget the target still holding the weapon, and can resist your pulling-power.

And all this mean that PSI combats will use "stances"? Come on. I feel like You're for some strange reason trying to make it way too complicated. For me it PSI Conflict is all about knocking the other Psion unconscious, or burning his brain to a crisp in the matter of seconds. Forte seems like a perfect stat for resisting PSI assaults.But on the other hand what do I know. :)
You can use the Psy-Lock and Brain-Blow only, if that's what you like. I just sugested more options to make it more interesting. If you think Forte is the best stat for resisting, who I am to stop you? I just think you need a strong will to prevent an invasion to your brain.

Any more questions?

[luke]

In my book it says "Disarm Strike (agg)".

BWR page 158: Disarm/Neutral Maneuver.

:?

[Fizban]

I based on what I have.
I don't have the Revised (yet :? )
You may change the Psydisarm to neutral attack mod, if that would make your day. You didn't have to ask me at the first place...

[Mickeroo]

I definatly agree that will should be used to resist. If you read comics or watch superhero movies, you know that characters with a high will resist psychic attacks more easily then those with a high forte. For example, it would be easier to mind control Lady Deathstryke than Professor X, as demonstrated in X2.

[Drozdal]

I definatly agree that will should be used to resist. If you read comics or watch superhero movies, you know that characters with a high will resist psychic attacks more easily then those with a high forte. For example, it would be easier to mind control Lady Deathstryke than Professor X, as demonstrated in X2.
Agreed, actually I was thinking in the same way, but for some strange reason it came out wrong :)

[Mickeroo]

I haven't thought of it mechanically yet, but maybe instead of will, use the psychic ability of the character. If the defender doesn't have one, then use wil at a x2 obstacle penalty or something?

[luke]

You didn't have to ask me at the first place...

Fiz,
if you don't back up your ideas with explanations of your concepts, who's going to? And if you don't show a strong concept, no one's going to want to listen to your ideas. Telling us, "do whatever you want" does not make your ideas more attractive. Stick by your guns, man.

-L

[Drozdal]

What Abzu said and also:
Teleporting - Ob 5-10 (depends on number of targets and distance):Moving from one point to another in seconds.
Without giving sample OB's for all your PSI talents/skills, this is really going nowhere. You're not giving GM anything to hold on to, and stating that OB "depends on number of targets and distance" really does nothing, but confuses hell outta me.
Why not start with something like that

Teleporting base OB2 - Base distance Presence
This PSI talent allows Psychic to transport himself and objects within his presence over the great distances instantly.
+1 OB per object transported (object is either a living creature or something human sized. If objects transported are bigger than a hunman add additional OB)
+1 OB per every point of attidional forte transported (heavy objects are +4-6 OB)
+2 OB per distance increased (Presence/10s of Paces, Line of Sight/100s of paces ect.)

[Kublai]

Why do you have to create new "born lifepath" for psionics? "Psionic Affinity" or "PSI talent" general trait IMHO, would allow a lot simpler implementation of this idea in the game world (Born psionic LP's would not be needed).
Some people born with the ability, whether they want it or not. Others work hard for learning how to use their inner power.

I have to agree with Droz here. Just make Psionic a trait and allow anyone who wants to have pSi powerz take it. No need for a Born Psionic LP. As for your "whether they want it or not" defense, it doesn't happen that way. If players want psionics, they will take the lifepath that gives them it or buy it as a trait. They most certainly have the choice whether to take it or not. After all, you don't see Born Sorcerer or Born Faithful in the lists.

[Mickeroo]

I think you guys might be going a little hard on Fizzy. I don't think the point was to have a perfectly tested system, he even says in his orignal post he hopes it was ok. There's room for improvment, but it's a good concept and I don't want to discourage Fiz, or other people, from posting for fear of reprimand.

[Kublai]

I thought I was taking it easy! You should hear me when I am criticizing Luke's ideas! :oops:

[Mickeroo]

Apparently...at least FIzban can't fire you. :D

[Thor Olavsrud]

Apparently...at least FIzban can't fire you. :D

Sure he can! Kublai doesn't work for Luke either. :lol:

On the other hand, Luke could kill his character...

[Fizban]

You didn't have to ask me at the first place...

Fiz,
if you don't back up your ideas with explanations of your concepts, who's going to? And if you don't show a strong concept, no one's going to want to listen to your ideas. Telling us, "do whatever you want" does not make your ideas more attractive. Stick by your guns, man.

-L
What I ment here was that I only give guide lines, the GM is the one who makes the final decides any way.

Drozdal, you right. I really should give some example. I'll add them in a few hours.

Kublay, when I sayd "wether they want it or not", I ment the character. And you must agree with me, a character can't choose what her player will decide for her :)
Any way, I made a "born" lifepath because people do able to be born with psychic powers, or to improve it afterward (that is from a view that everybody born with inner abilities). Faith is Faith. You can't have it without understanding, and nobody borns with any understanding of anything. Magic is something you learn. I agree that some can be born with more potential for being magic users, but I find magic conected to psychic powers, so actually "Gifted" is another way to use your inner power. The idea is that you can't do anything only with potential, while if you are Born Psychic, you can use your powers even as a baby!

Oh, and I can fire a fireball on Kublay, but I don't think he would like it, so I better don't :P

Fiz

[Kublai]

You should take a strong stand than and rule that the only way to be a psychic is to be Born Psychic. Makes it more interesting for sure!

[Fizban]

As I said, everyone can be a psyonic, they just must work hard for it. Do you think I better raise the apprentice yrs up?

[Kublai]

Well, if anyone can learn to use psionics, then Born Psionic is useless. Players would only need to take the Psionic Apprentice lifepath and earn the Psionic Ability trait. That's my only point - lose the Born Psionic LP.

[Fizban]

I keep the "born" LP for those who want to play a charachter that bended spoons even as a baby.
If it is so problematic for you, ignore it.
I can't force you to take it, even if you're playing according to my rules.

[Kublai]

Ah, I see the dysfunction here!

In my campaign worlds, you are either born with Gifted or Faithful or you're not. You can never learn such things during play. Thus I never interpreted traits such as Gifted to be earned from the actual lifepath. It was sort of "OK, I took Sorcerer's Apprentice, which means that I must have been born with the Gifted trait!" Same for Faithful. It was a reciprocal, timeless thing in my imagination.

But in your world there would have to be a Born Gifted and Born Faithful just as there will be a Born Psychic. Some kids must be simply born with the ability to cast magic ala Harry Potter or the ability to make miracles ala Jesus Christ!

[Viper]

Fizban,

I think maybe the disconnect here is that the "born" lifepaths in the book indicate what setting you start in - you're born in the city, you're born in a village, you're born into a noble house.

So, having a born psychic lifepath implies that there is some community of psychics that the character was born into, which I don't think is your intent. There's not really a way for you to have a psychic villager, or psychic noble, or anything like that, without putting the "born psychic" lifepath in all the different settings. And, I think what Kublai is trying to say is that if it is going to be an option for any character to be born with these powers, it is easier to just make it an optional character trait that can be purchased like anything else. I don't have the books on me, but i think most of the born lifepaths give you at least a trait point- you can allow the players in your campaign to take that trait for the single point.

That way, you can have born villagers who are psychic, born nobles that are psychic, etc. Then, if they choose to develop their powers, they can head off into the outcast lifepaths. If they do not develop them too much, and keep them well hidden, then they can just take lifepaths as normal.

As for other characters, people who developed their powers after birth, they can just transition into the psychic lifepaths as normal, again, simply taking the psychic trait for a point when they acquire the LP.

Anyway, it's your idea, so by all means, do it your way, but I just wanted to explain a little better why people might be having trouble with the "born" LP.

[Redoid]

Might I add that it's very similar in principle with the Bastard lifepath in the Noble setting? Obviously, noone can become a bastard, you must be borne as one. But it reflects mainly on your education after the very young childhood, so it's the second lifepath you must take.

A psychic child would probably be very similar to other normal children until he can concentrate his will to do "things", so it's OK, IMHO, to have this lifepath happen immediately after the Born one. Or it could be linked with puberty. It's not necessary to have a lifepath reflect a profession.

[Fizban]

Ok, I understand now.
So the trait would be this:
Psychic Talent - Die Trait - Cost: 3pt
The charachter have psychic powers, wether borned with it or practice for having it. character with this trait can't be Gifted nor Faithful, she dedicated her life for her inner-power only. Any character with this trait have one free set of psychic powers (as I described above).

Now just ignore all the "Born" LP, and add 1 trait point for each apprentice LP.

[Redoid]

Yeah, so for a human, you can either learn psi powers (ie, buy it with trait points as an aside to your normal career) or take a lifepath of Apprentice to get it at a discount. By having it priced at 3 points, you make it more accessible than Faith or the Gift, so I guess it will be less powerful or maybe less freeform than the other two supernatural powers? For example, by comparing the power with what a Sorcerer could do, if you're concerned with game balance and don't want every one of your characters to get Psi just because it's a kewl power and too cheap to pass.

But then again, you may be blessed with good players who are not in the least interested in minmaxing.

[Fizban]

I really thought about making a cost of 5 for humans, I just didn't want it to be too hard for other races to get it.
On the other hand, I think it's not too bad if people would have only one set of psychic powers... yes, I think the best solution is this:
everyone can have the Psychic Talent trait, but to practice and have more then one powers set, they must have Psyonic LP.
yeah, I think this one is good.
What do you say?

[Redoid]

It sounds good to me. Have a trait to "open up" the psi power path, and if you want to reflect that everyone can have a single power, it could be part of a "peculiar puberty" lifepath where suddenly the character discovers he's not like the other boys and girls... and get the power at 1 trait point, and it opens its first "psi skill" at a root equal to half its will. Maybe give one more trait points and a "freak" mandatory trait in this case.

If he's interested in learning psi power, he'll do the Apprentice way, and study so he can have access to psi powers (via the trait) and psi skills (and he can open as many as he likes if he was trained in it and has enough skill points).

[Fizban]

Ok, I took all what you said and worked on a final document for my system:
Psyonic Powers for Burning Wheel (http://planet.nana.co.il/fomry/Psyonic.doc)

if you'll check, you'll find I added there some failing rules, and some sample Ob for some of the powers.

Enjoy, and don't forget to tell me how it is :wink:
Oh, and thanks for anyone here who helped me to design those rules.

All Rights Reserved,
Fizban :)

[Fizban]

Replies? Someone?

[Redoid]

I''ll have a shot at answering :)

First, in your lifepath, you're giving away only generic skill points, probably a leftover of the time it was all "Born..." lifepath. General points should be few in a career.

When looking at obstacles, we must notice that the psychic attribute of a starting psi expert will be half is Will (say 3) plus 1 per psychic lifepath. A dedicated psi will have 3 psychic lifepath (plus a born one) in a standard game, and so will roll 6 dices. OK.

First power is telepathy. Your starting specialized telepath will be able to consistently speak with people all around the country, I can see it a very useful power, if narrow. Seems OK to me.

Telekinesis may be too broad however. I've no problem with people consistantly flying, as magic can do this easily as well. Maybe you could consider making subtle move impossible? One of the example says that one can wirte a letter at distance, thus displaying a very fine control of his telekinetic power. Flavourful, but creative players will use it to open doors by moving part of the lock, neutralize gun bearer and crossbow user by pulling the trigger, and all sort of unforeseen use of telekinesis. If this is wanted, fine, but if not, you could states that the control isn't that good and that force can only be applied on a large object. I've no problem with people bashing down door with a telekinetic push, but it may deserve a higher ob. On the other, if fine control is what you intended, I have no problem with that,, and was just wondering if you had factored that in.

Teleporting is difficult and that's good. It's hard on the GM when characters get the awful D&D combination of scrying and teleporting, also known as the "gather clue on the suspect, scry him, then scry the place that was seen long enough for the spellcaster to teleport the whole group, keeping a teleport in case things go awry". I suppose it's why abzu doesn't want teleporting characters, for fear they turn into what our group has dubbed "chaotic kangaroos", hopping from place to place leaving behind them a trail of destruction. But at ob 7, even a master psychic will have trouble doing it, and doing it consistently will require artha. So as a life-saver, I fieel it may be balanced. I like it.

Astral travel may be a little too powerful... it's the perfect spy, and there is no fear for retaliation by being a near constant state of astral travel. So, why even bother to bring his body along? The psychic character would be far more useful by being a ghost on the behalf of the rest of the party... Esp. why bother with mind control when you could simply astral travel before and mind control immediately after leaving your body? It would be an automatic obstacle halver for people with mind control.

[Thunder_God]

Didn't read the updated file itself, so can't comment on the Mind Control issue, but how about people who keep Astral Projecting aren't in on the action, and don't really get to practice?

Maybe add some sort of Emotional trait where you get addicted to Psychic powers and use them all the time. ALL. THE. Time. Even as far as your other traits/stats begin degrading. You don't walk, you don't write, you don't dress yourself, your whole body begins ennervating. You could then fix it nicely with a Freak trait and make it cheap. Cheap power, eventually the more you use it, the more you'll have to resist NOT using it, failing will get you mono-focused.

Or maybe I'm a bit too harsh? Heh...

[Fizban]

I''ll have a shot at answering :)

First, in your lifepath, you're giving away only generic skill points, probably a leftover of the time it was all "Born..." lifepath. General points should be few in a career.
Maybe you're right. The main Idea was that while practicing Psychic the charachter don't practice any specific skill, so she can practice on whatever she wants on her free time. But maybe I do need to give less points.

Telekinesis may be too broad however. I've no problem with people consistantly flying, as magic can do this easily as well. Maybe you could consider making subtle move impossible? One of the example says that one can wirte a letter at distance, thus displaying a very fine control of his telekinetic power. Flavourful, but creative players will use it to open doors by moving part of the lock, neutralize gun bearer and crossbow user by pulling the trigger, and all sort of unforeseen use of telekinesis. If this is wanted, fine, but if not, you could states that the control isn't that good and that force can only be applied on a large object. I've no problem with people bashing down door with a telekinetic push, but it may deserve a higher ob. On the other, if fine control is what you intended, I have no problem with that,, and was just wondering if you had factored that in.
You got the general idea - you do able to make complex actions with Telekinesis, but don't forget the more complex the action, the harder it is to perform.

Astral travel may be a little too powerful... it's the perfect spy, and there is no fear for retaliation by being a near constant state of astral travel. So, why even bother to bring his body along? The psychic character would be far more useful by being a ghost on the behalf of the rest of the party... Esp. why bother with mind control when you could simply astral travel before and mind control immediately after leaving your body? It would be an automatic obstacle halver for people with mind control.
I think you missed a point. No body lives without food and water (double meaning :lol: ). If you stay out of your body for too long time, it will starve to death. Then the soul will dye in 24 hours. The only way you can stay like a ghost is to freeze your body. Not something you can do easyly in non-modernic system.

Maybe add some sort of Emotional trait where you get addicted to Psychic powers and use them all the time. ALL. THE. Time. Even as far as your other traits/stats begin degrading. You don't walk, you don't write, you don't dress yourself, your whole body begins ennervating. You could then fix it nicely with a Freak trait and make it cheap. Cheap power, eventually the more you use it, the more you'll have to resist NOT using it, failing will get you mono-focused.
I liked the Idea. have any idea how to... systematize it?

[Mickeroo]

Sorry, for some reason quoting doesn't work for me (or I don't know how to do it) but...

As for the psychic addiction, try using rules similar to greed. I think that the mechanics could be very similair.