Serpent Sun Ammo Check

[luke]

In the spirit of not counting paces, how about a mechanic for not counting bullets? This is for use with firearms with magazines in Range and Cover.

Using the Ammo Check mechanic, a player fires off and logs magazines worth of ammunition rather than individual bullets. After an exchange of Range and Cover conflict, each player who participated makes a Firearms (or .45) skill check for his character. This represents the character ducking behind cover for a moment and popping his magazine to check his rounds. The better skilled he is, the more likely he'll be able to conserve ammunition and really make his magazine last.

Test the skill at the end of each exchange at Ob 0 (yes, zero) and apply the following obstacle penalties:

+1 Ob for each volley in which the weapon's positioning dice were used.
+2 Ob for each Steel-based maneuver performed
+3 Ob for a full-auto burst (the 10 rounder described under the AK in SS).

The above modifiers are for total volleys for the Range and Cover conflict. They can stretch across multiple exchanges.

Add bonus dice to the test based on the following conditions:
+1D if your magazine is larger than your opponent's.
+1D if your weapon has a longer range than your opponent's.
+2D if your magazine is twice as large as your opponent's.

If you fail the test, you've burned a magazine of ammunition and mark it off your gear list. If you pass, you're fine for another exchange.

Out of Ammo and Reloading
If you begin an exchange with an empty magazine, you can't use that weapon for positioning dice in the first volley.

I'm on the fence about reloading. There are a couple of options. 1) The character is assumed to reload during/after positioning and may fire if he wins the positioning test. 2) Character must win the positioning test and spend an action/die to reload. 3) Character simply may not fire that weapon for the first volley after a failed ammo check.

gotta play test those.

You're Out, Buddy!
This is an experimental mechanic: After a particularly intense burst of fire in one volley -- in which both players discharged their weapon-- either player may spend a Fate point to call for an ammo check right then and there. Both players test their skill against the above obstacle, if either fails he is subject to the Out of Ammo rules above.

whaddya think?
-L

[Mickeroo]

Now all we need is someone to run an Under the Serpent Sun game...

Like at a con or something...

*glare*
...
*cough*

[luke]

Now all we need is someone to run an Under the Serpent Sun game...


you mean like one I'm running at Recess this saturday?
http://nerdnyc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209696#209696

-L

[Mickeroo]

Damn you finals week...

I will not be able to attend.

By the way, is UASS updated for the revision?

[luke]

By the way, is UASS updated for the revision?

NO! It's a fucking mess. But, this game is to test it out with the Revision. I'll update and revise it soon after.

So far, I'm enjoying how the characters are turning out.

If it goes well this weekend, I'll run it at 555.

-L

[Viper]

I like it! We should test these rules in the recess game. In my opinion, I lean towards options 2 or 3 as far as reloading goes

[luke]

I like it! We should test these rules in the recess game.

Why do you think I posted them! ;)

Not that there's going to be a firefight or anything. :roll:

-L

[Viper]

Oh yeah, I mean why would there be a firefight? We're only assaulting a holocaust seed bunker. I was gonna go for the old 'candygram' trick from Blazing Saddles.

[Mickeroo]

"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Just ask nice...oh...you're assaulting a bunker...nevermind.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Out of Ammo and Reloading
If you begin an exchange with an empty magazine, you can't use that weapon for positioning dice in the first volley.

I'm on the fence about reloading. There are a couple of options. 1) The character is assumed to reload during/after positioning and may fire if he wins the positioning test. 2) Character must win the positioning test and spend an action/die to reload. 3) Character simply may not fire that weapon for the first volley after a failed ammo check.

gotta play test those.

You're Out, Buddy!
This is an experimental mechanic: After a particularly intense burst of fire in one volley -- in which both players discharged their weapon-- either player may spend a Fate point to call for an ammo check right then and there. Both players test their skill against the above obstacle, if either fails he is subject to the Out of Ammo rules above.

As to reloading. Does it take much longer to change a magazine than it does to draw and nock an arrow? We designed the Range and Cover rules to make time malleable so that you don't have to deal with that unless you're talking about something with REALLY long reload times, like crossbows or black powder weapons.

Given that, and the fact that you won't be able to use your weapon positioning dice for that Volley (which I absolutely agree with!), I think you just be assumed to swap out the magazine as part of the positioning test. Win and you can fire. Lose and you can't. Otherwise you're double-weighting (IMHO). I'm happy to concede and say that in this instance you can't fire on a tie.

I like the You're Out, Buddy! rule.

[luke]

definitely understand your point. and you're correct about the timing intent of RnC. But I also want the translation to a world of firearms to FEEL right. In the medieval fantasy stuff, we're using a variety of weapons with varying reload capabilities. In SS, we've got magazine fed firearms. Everyone's weapon is fast loading. I want to experiment with the "I have bullets and i'm ready to shoot" vs the "shit, I'm out!" timing and see what works.

-L

[Kublai]

I like needing to win the positioning test then spending a success to reload.

[luke]

I like needing to win the positioning test then spending a success to reload.

you're comfortable with the idea that you may never get a chance to reload, then?

-L

[Mickeroo]

You said this is for firearms with magazines, but what about one shot guns? Do you just have to spend extra sucesses to reload, similar to opening a door in the middle of range and cover fighting?

[luke]

You said this is for firearms with magazines, but what about one shot guns? Do you just have to spend extra sucesses to reload, similar to opening a door in the middle of range and cover fighting?

the shotguns in Serpent Sun have internal magazines that hold 7 rounds. In fact, most modern shotguns do.

If you really wanted to do a barrel-loading shotgun, I'd make them pay successs to reload every fucking volley.

-L

[Mickeroo]

No no no, I mean guns that can only hold one shot at a time, like an arquebus.

[luke]

No no no, I mean guns that can only hold one shot at a time, like an arquebus.

Oh. Then what are you talking about? I wrote a whole chapter about one-shot weapons. Bows, crossbows and arquebus are described in Range and Cover. Rules for really slow weapons are described on the bottom of BW page 129.

-L

[Mickeroo]

Ah, i thoguht I read it somewhere, but just skipped that sub-section when looking for it because I didn't think it had to do with reloading. Sorry.

[Viper]

I like needing to win the positioning test then spending a success to reload.

you're comfortable with the idea that you may never get a chance to reload, then?

-L

How about this: If you win the positiining test, and spend a success, then bingo, you reload. If you fail the test, or win it without a enough of a margin to spend that success, then you have to spend a physical action in order to reload. That way, you get a tangible benefit from winning the positioning test, but you're not completely shit out of luck if you don't.

[luke]

i think i'm leaning toward: fail the Ammo Check test, and you may not shoot on your next volley, and your weapon may not be used for positioning. You automatically reload that volley.

If you win the positioning test, you can still, maneuver buy cover and prevent your opponent from shooting at you!

-L

[skandall]

Awesome! My first thought after reading the new books was that UaSS would really need some updates to bring it in line with the revised BW. Since I'm planning to run a UaSS game at the end of May I really look forward to getting my hands on a copy of the revised UaSS.

I would prefer that players be able to reload whether or not they win the positioning test. So the last post from abzu sounds the best to me.

[Kaare Berg]

Got to go with you here Luke.

Failed ammo check = can't use the dice.

Makes sense.

Love the you're out buddy rule.

Got me fired up about the Burning Suns/ WH 40K: Rouge Wheel idea that's bugging me.

Damn you.

[skandall]

I'm wondering how it went with these rules? I'll be running BW:UaSS at the end of the month so any updates I can get for UaSS before then will be awesome!

[cawshis]

Well, when I played it at Recess, everyone was too busy dying to worry about ammo...and two of us were killed with knives anyway! :twisted:

Lord above that was a fun game!

[luke]

We used them once so far and they seemed to work well enough.

It's just vital to remember that when narrating violence via firearms, the player can't dictate how many rounds he's fired. Even if he says he only fires a round, we leave the truth up to the ammo check.

-L

[Deacon Blues]

i think i'm leaning toward: fail the Ammo Check test, and you may not shoot on your next volley, and your weapon may not be used for positioning. You automatically reload that volley.

If you win the positioning test, you can still, maneuver buy cover and prevent your opponent from shooting at you!

-LIt'd still be tricky to win the positioning test if you fail the Ammo Check, right? Presuming your opponent succeeded, they still get to use their weapon and its juicy positioning dice. So if you go out of ammo in the middle of a firefight and your opponent's still firing, you've got no real choice but to drop behind cover (allowing your opponent to Close or Maintain all they like) and fumble for a clip.

I like it. :D

[luke]

yes. you should check out the Serpent Sun pdf (http://www.burningwheel.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=7), it's got the latest version of these rules. (the pdf's at the bottom of the page)

-L