A Little Introduction

[luke]

Hi all,

In this thread: http://burningwheel.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1202

Jocke mentioned that he was having trouble with powergamer players, and he wanted a way to curb their appetite.

But he caught himself and pointed this out:
Maybe this problem only underlines the importance of making the outlines and goals of a campaign together as a group instead of making it a GM only task. Next time we game (tomorrow hopefully) I have planned to have a discussion before we begin about the campaign, it's goals, the characters and their BITs. Just to make sure everyone is on the same page and that the characters are updated in this respect too (thanks for the tip Kublai!).

But, he went on to justify his fears:

I know you don't have to minmax to get an enjoyable experience. But some people never seem to get that no matter what. It's like they must calculate and plan and squeeze and pull to see how much juice they can get from the system with different setups. Instead of making a good concept and see how this can be represented in BW terms they see what the system can give them and slap a concept on it. Especially true (in other systems as well) with people doing their second or third character using the same rules.

As a GM it is ofc my responsibility to make sure the players come up with workable concepts before advancing in the creation process. I try to make sure they make characters that not only work with the concept they've made but also that the numbers they choose reflect the concept and yield a character that works in the setting.

His comments inspired me to start this particular forum. Let's talk about the social reality of starting games, changing systems and keeping games going. This isn't about system mechanics or characters, but about what the people do behind the scenes to make it all work.

Feel free to start new threads with your own issues and queries, and feel free to comment on Jocke's dilemna. However, if you haven't played BW just yet, hold off on your comments. Even though the advice isn't about game mechanics, we all know that BW is a very different game than what's out there and some advice needs to be tailored to address this.

thanks!
Burn on.
-Luke

[Paka]

Jocke,

I have had the priviledge of gaming with people entirely new to Burning Wheel and entirely new to my table.

I ran a game with a girl and she wanted to make an Elvish Princess. "You will let me start off with an Elvish princess?"

"Sure."

"But its so powerful."

"So?"

"Most GM's I know would be uncomfortable with us starting out that powerful."

"Its a one-shot, let's live it up and even if it wasn't, its just a matter of scale. An Elvish Princess is still going to ahve problems, just as a peasant kid in an uncaring city is going to have problems. Those problems are where are game is AT."

I found I had to tell them that I wasn't out to get them. That I wasn't out to get them. That I wasn't out to get them.

So many GM's wait for their players to do s omething and then they crush them and even tell them how dumb they are.

Oy.

It is like dating someone who has been in an abusive relationship and whenver you run your hand through your hair they flinch, thinking the next hit's-a-comin'; that is what gaming with people who have been at a rough table is like.

Maybe talk about the players' past experiences and the games they look back on with the most fondness. What games rocked and why? What games sucked and why? Why do they play anyway?

What do think they the GM's job is and what is the player's job?

Good luck.

[yeloson]

Hi Paka,

Yeah, I had a very similar experience with Riddle of Steel, I had to keep reassuring the player that the NPCs weren't all out to get him, and that his character's girlfriend wasn't going to be kidnapped the second he turned his head. I called it the "Abused Player Syndrome".

I think far too much play in general has been based on not giving the players any input(including control over their own characters!) that many players DO react like they're going to get whammied at any moment. Of course, it really doesn't help when many of the game texts out there talk about "The GM is God", "Keep Control at All Costs" and "Don't Trust the Players", usually with a lot more examples of problem players than functional ones.

What I think is really great with BW is that you get the rules, but there is also extensive explaination of the "spirit of the rules", so that everyone understands what they're supposed to be used for and to be honest when someone's being a twink.

It seems like common sense- as a group, let's figure out what tickles our fancy, let's set down some limits(What races? What cultures? How many Lifepaths? How high can Exponents go?), but work within those limits as a group to make something we can all dig.

Its utterly scary how foreign the idea of trust and fun is for many gamers.

Chris