My Wonderful Narrative Wargamers

[Paka]

My weekly group are these wondeful narrative wargamers, weened on teat of Warhammer, Battletech and historical miniature gaming.

However, they love the story, play well and don't twink too hard.

But now we are starting this new system and I have worries.

Y'see we just got done with a Riddle of Steel mini-campaign and sometimes my lack of prowess with the battle system therein led to my NPC's not being as challenging as perhaps they hsould have been.

And now we are stepping up to Burning Wheel.

I tell a helluva story and I'm good at putting PC's into positions where they have to make hard choices. I'm good at that part of this art. BUt I'm not so good at the systems stuff. Which is why I'm reding BW so carefully, making sure I've got it down.

Advise me what they are going to do. What are dice-jocks going to attempt to do with this system. They aren't going to tweak out on their characters but what little tricks should a GM know for combats?

Tips? Tricks? Thoughts on running combats?

What do munchkins do with Burning Wheel combat?

How do some people attempt to break the system?

My group doesn't do much of this shit but I'm curious.

Thanks!

[Redoid]

It you're playing with wargamers at heart, please reread the summary of positionning rules for multiple fighters, because they will certainly ask questions about relative distance of people who were not fighting each other the previous volley. Like in, "ho, one of us is injured, he retreats while one of the other warriors go and engage his foe, all the while fighting his current enemy. It's better to know in which relative positions they are.

[Ozark Tim]

If the concern is that they are better at wargaming type situations and that this is translating over to combat scripting, remember that the GM can cheat. If you have an NPC that is smarter than you the GM, then by all means assume that the NPC would make better choices than you and change things discreetely in his favor. Don't let the players know, and don't start bad habits like letting the players see you scripting sheets.

I imagine that a lot of folks will heartily disagree with me on this, but it all depends on the style of the game.

[Paka]

Ozark,

I like to play the system straight up and not fudge.

BW is such a great system, I don't have to fudge and I dig that.

Once they know I'm willing to cheat, for or against them, I feel that the sting goes out of combat. If you care to debate this point, that's cool, please start another thread and we'll debate the issue there.

For now, preparing to run BW for system savvy gamers, please...

[Thor Olavsrud]

In my experience, it's pretty difficult to utterly twink the Fight! system, especially under the new rules.

On the stats end, the system punishes players who don't balance out their stats. You need good Perception, Agility AND Speed in order to get a decent Reflexes attribute. You need good Speed in order to control fighting distance. You need good Agility to get a decent Root for your Martial skills. You need good Power in order to actually do some damage. You need good Forte AND Power in order to have a decent Mortal Wound. And you need good Will in order to keep your Hesitation low.

Plus, if ANY of your Stats are low, that just means you'll be Incapacitated faster due to lost dice from wounds.

Even if your PCs ARE combat gods, a good script can beat them.

That said, players should really have to justify any skill they take that is higher than exponent 5. Remember, exponent 3 is skilled. Exponent 4 is a veteran. Exponent 5 is mastery of your craft. Exponent 6 and above are individuals who would be famous for their skill.

Don't let them push you around with FoRKs. Brawling can be FoRKed into just about ay weapon skill, but make sure they narrate how they're fighting dirty. Don't listen to them when they try to FoRK their spear skill into their sword skill -- unless they happen to be fighting guys with spears. Then they may be justified. But I would still make them narrate HOW they use their knowledge to effect. For us, injecting color is essential to keeping the narrative flow going.

Players can Help each other with Positioning tests (so long as they are scripting the same Movement maneuver). That's good! It means they're using teamwork and actually using a plan! Just don't forget that your NPCs can do it too. And the usual refrain: make them narrate how they help each other!

Watch out for the Elven Ranger with Threne of Chameleon and an Elven Cloak and Elven Bow (or longbow). These guys are supremely dangerous in Range and Cover. I'm not saying don't allow him. Just noting that he WILL dominate in Range and Cover.

Also, watch out for Wizards with Sight Origin Destroyer spells. They are brutal in Range and Cover.

As far as GM tips go: Don't bother scripting for all of your bad guys. Write two or three sample scripts (much as we did for some of the beasties in the Monster Burner) ahead of time. Switch 'em up as appropriate. That way you only have to script for your big, important NPCs.

[Bill Cook]

Use the Badguys and Monsters section in classic. They're great NPC templates. Elvish mail is truly awesome. Defeat with a run-of-the-mill mace. If they get Strike happy, use shields and Counterstrikes.

You really feel the bottleneck of scripting, especially coming off of TROS. But it settles into place. Use laminated sheets and grease pencils. I cannibalized two Scrabble sets and filled an ice cube tray with Avery-labeled tiles. Nick and I prefer the sheets. Everyone else in my group swears by the tile trays.

Important tip: make a couple of rolls before going to the script. Even if that doesn't settle things, it makes for a better transition. I use one column on the original script sheet to check off the actions as we go through them.

If you're trying to keep Gamist players loose, defeat their tactics. BW is an options rich kit, so you should be able to put together everything you need. I would (a) note repetitive player tactics that exploit some sweet spot, (b) devize an NPC to defeat it, (c) throw those two together and play it straight.

For example, your player creates a veteran soldier with Sword B6, Sp 4, a chain suit and a chapeau de guerre. And he scripts (Advance) Strike / (Maintain) H. Strike, Strike / H. Strike. Every exchange. One way to outsmart him is with an urchin knife fighter gang: 2-3 men, Dagger B4, Sp 5 and R. leather vests. Have one (Advance) Parry / (Advance) Parry / (Advance) Strike, Strike while the others throw daggers at the soldier's head.

[Paka]

Bill, thanks for the thoughts.

I cannibalized two Scrabble sets and filled an ice cube tray with Avery-labeled tiles. Nick and I prefer the sheets. Everyone else in my group swears by the tile trays..

This fascinates me and I know that I have an old Scrabble board without all the letters.

How exactly do you use the tiles?

[Bill Cook]

Buy Avery Print or Write Multi-Use Labels 05418 at an office supply store or here (http://www.avery.com/us/Main?action=product.Details&catalogcode=WEB01&node=10211318&productcode=5418). Download the label template here (http://www.avery.com/us/Main?action=software.BlankTPLProductSKU&catalogcode=WEB01&softwarecode=11406). Type in an action acronym series (e.g. [Ad] = Advance, St = Strike, B = Block) and print. They cover the letter, stay in place and peel away easily. Arrange them face down on the tile rack with spaces in-between volleys. Flip over a volley's worth of tiles when you announce.

I find an ice cube tray is an ideal bank.

[Paka]

Wow, Bill, that is some wild stuff, very much deserving of its own thread.

[Kaare Berg]

Hi Judd,

Focus on one fight at a time, run an exchange through. Do not break up the exchanges into vollies, you'll break the flow.

An if someone finishes all their opponents, well they have to forefit an action to assess if they want to know where the rest are.

Oh and Divine inspiration (aka deed usage) only doubles the skill, not the die pool. One of my players thought so (or conviniently forgot not to, jury is still out on that one) and it nearly killed another player. Can cause a lot of bad feelings.