Gray Hatred?

[Paka]

One of my players answered the Hatred questions after burnign up a Named Orc with six life-paths. He came up with a Hatred of 8 but the exponent limit was 6. So, he gray'ed his Hatred out.

Is that kosher?

What the fuck does that even mean?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Is that kosher?

What the fuck does that even mean?

That's cool. He's got Hate of legendary proportions!

[Paka]

Is that kosher?

What the fuck does that even mean?

That's cool. He's got Hate of legendary proportions!

Wow. :shock:

Rough.

[Thor Olavsrud]

It also means that all Hatred-rooted skills are Gray! :shock:

[Mickeroo]

Does that mean that dice added from hatred (by using artha) are gray? Do the rest of the dice stay the same though? For example, someone witha b4 knife uses artha to add 4 dice from a g4 hatres. Do they roll 4 gray dice and 4 black?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Does that mean that dice added from hatred (by using artha) are gray? Do the rest of the dice stay the same though? For example, someone witha b4 knife uses artha to add 4 dice from a g4 hatres. Do they roll 4 gray dice and 4 black?

No, unless you're adding them to a Gray skill. The skill that is being used determines the Shade.

Maybe this will make it clear: Paka's character has a Resources G4. Mickeroo's character has a Resources B4. Paka goes to buy a hunting bow and Mickeroo decides to Help him. Paka rolls G5 against Ob 3.

Now let's say Mickeroo goes to buy a hunting bow from the same guy. Paka decides to help him. Mickeroo rolls B5 against Ob 3.

[Paka]

Does that mean that dice added from hatred (by using artha) are gray? Do the rest of the dice stay the same though? For example, someone witha b4 knife uses artha to add 4 dice from a g4 hatres. Do they roll 4 gray dice and 4 black?

No, unless you're adding them to a Gray skill. The skill that is being used determines the Shade.

Maybe this will make it clear:

Paka's character has a Resources G4.

Mickeroo's character has a Resources B4.

Paka goes to buy a hunting bow and Mickeroo decides to Help him. Paka rolls G5 against Ob 3.

Now let's say Mickeroo goes to buy a hunting bow from the same guy. Paka decides to help him. Mickeroo rolls B5 against Ob 3.

That is very clear.

Thanks.

Wow, graying out your resources. That is freakin' nuts.

I had never even thought of that.

[Mickeroo]

Yeah, most of the characters in my game have either a b0 or b1 resources. Is that bad for 4 LP characters?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Wow, graying out your resources. That is freakin' nuts.

I had never even thought of that.

:twisted: Dwarves can do it with 5 or 6 lifepaths, no problem. Gray Resources is good. Gray Circles is freakin' scary. :lol:

[Thor Olavsrud]

Yeah, most of the characters in my game have either a b0 or b1 resources. Is that bad for 4 LP characters?

Not really. It depends on the characters you are going for. B0 is tough because it means you are going to have to get a loan (or find a hoard or rob some people) to get some Resources Advantage dice to earn the tests you need to open your Resources. But that's good story fodder.

But if you have a player build a knight with B0 or B1 Resources, then watch out. He hasn't spent any rps on Relationships, Affiliations, Reputations or Land.

[luke]

One of my players answered the Hatred questions after burnign up a Named Orc with six life-paths. He came up with a Hatred of 8 but the exponent limit was 6. So, he gray'ed his Hatred out.

CB page 212: he's got to spend 5 points to get the gray. otherwise, just let him keep the B8. just means he's closer to the end.

-L

[Paka]

One of my players answered the Hatred questions after burnign up a Named Orc with six life-paths. He came up with a Hatred of 8 but the exponent limit was 6. So, he gray'ed his Hatred out.

CB page 212: he's got to spend 5 points to get the gray. otherwise, just let him keep the B8. just means he's closer to the end.

-L

Yup, he spent the points. We're all still getting used to the system and I just wanted to make sure this was kosher.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Yup, he spent the points. We're all still getting used to the system and I just wanted to make sure this was kosher.

Not a problem at all. Gray Greed and Gray Grief are also acceptable. As is Gray Faith.

[Drozdal]

As is Gray Faith.
Now that is fucking scary. :shock:

[Kublai]

Meh. Even a G7 Faith isn't much when every Obstacle you need is 10! :cry:

[Mickeroo]

If you were to get a gray faith, wouldn't the max starting exponet be 1? (6 possible - 5 for grey?)

[Thor Olavsrud]

If you were to get a gray faith, wouldn't the max starting exponet be 1? (6 possible - 5 for grey?)

Someone obviously hasn't looked at the Chosen One trait. :lol:

Meh. Even a G7 Faith isn't much when every Obstacle you need is 10! :cry:

Sounds like it's time to get a congregation with the Believer trait!

[Drozdal]

If you were to get a gray faith, wouldn't the max starting exponet be 1? (6 possible - 5 for grey?)
I do not know if Abzu would allow any of us start a game with gray faith. The "Lets's spend 5 pionts to grey out something" mechanic was mainly developed for the stuf that exceeds base limit of exponent 6 during character creation. I know that this sounds kinda contradictory (because skills and attributses can be greayed out whenever you can afford it), but for me it's ok to start playing with emotional attribute greater than 6, however if it reaches 10 during burning, you have to spent that 5 points to be able to play.

[Mickeroo]

If someone starts with a b9 grief, faith, et cetera, would you recommend graying it or playing it. I mean, it could be interesting, but he might die/trasnseced relatively soon, regardless of what he does, which would be annoying.

[Thor Olavsrud]

If someone starts with a b9 grief, faith, et cetera, would you recommend graying it or playing it. I mean, it could be interesting, but he might die/trasnseced relatively soon, regardless of what he does, which would be annoying.

It depends on the criteria you've set (as per Setting Your Game's Starting Power Level on page 36 of the Character Burner) and, if you've allowed it, what the player thinks would be more fun.

The exponent limits are intended to apply to everything, including Faith, Greed, Grief, Hatred, Resources, Circles, etc. Obviously, you may choose to exempt certain Attributes as the group sees fit.

Edited to add: If the attribute/ability is something you actually roll or get dice for, like Greed or Hatred or Resources, a really high exponent generally trumps a lighter Shade in terms of power level. When in doubt, check the probabilities in the Monster Burner to see how that works.

[Drozdal]

If someone starts with a b9 grief, faith, et cetera, would you recommend graying it or playing it. I mean, it could be interesting, but he might die/trasnseced relatively soon, regardless of what he does, which would be annoying.
Depends on type of the game. If You planning on running camapign lower hatered by greying it out, but for one-shots or short scenarios/mini campaigns leave it as is, that will force player to really think about when to use his hatered and create a lot of cool in game situations.

[Redoid]

Edited to add: If the attribute/ability is something you actually roll or get dice for, like Greed or Hatred or Resources, a really high exponent generally trumps a lighter Shade in terms of power level. When in doubt, check the probabilities in the Monster Burner to see how that works.

Yeah, with a maximum starting exponent of 6, one would trade:
B6 for G1, average 3 successes versus 0.66
B8 for G3, average 4 successes versus 2
B10 for G4, average 5 successes versus 2.66

Trading 5 points in character creation is a big drop, however, with a lower exponent, the character will get experienced faster. It's much more manageable than a char starting with B8 something and never progressing. However, it's quite strange if you allow graying out stats during character creation: someone spending his time training, say, Power, would either be a world class bodybuilder (B7) or as frail as an old man (G2) but with an heroic potential...

[Thor Olavsrud]

Trading 5 points in character creation is a big drop, however, with a lower exponent, the character will get experienced faster. It's much more manageable than a char starting with B8 something and never progressing. However, it's quite strange if you allow graying out stats during character creation: someone spending his time training, say, Power, would either be a world class bodybuilder (B7) or as frail as an old man (G2) but with an heroic potential...

Right. And it's precisely for that sort of thing that it requires GM approval. At my table it would require approval of the entire group. Generally, I would only allow it if the alternative were going above the exponent maximums we'd set (i.e., an elf with really high Grief), UNLESS it really fits in well with the character concept.

[Mickeroo]

Yeah, also gray stats suffer more (I think) on open ended dice since there would be less 6s rolled. I did a little basic math, and it seems that gray-5 definatly has less of an advantage then a full black exponent with open ended as well.

[luke]

Yeah, also gray stats suffer more (I think) on open ended dice since there would be less 6s rolled. I did a little basic math, and it seems that gray-5 definatly has less of an advantage then a full black exponent with open ended as well.

Mike? Six-sided dice roll the same number of 6s no matter what the target number is.


Anyway, a low gray is a builder -- more for the long term. High gray is fucking kick ass, whomp-stomping, 'you ain't even in my league, little man' kind of ability.

-L

PS A player who's priorities were to take a high Power would never purchase a gray shade Power using Power exponent dice. He'd draw dice from his Agility or Speed.

[Redoid]

Yeah, also gray stats suffer more (I think) on open ended dice since there would be less 6s rolled. I did a little basic math, and it seems that gray-5 definatly has less of an advantage then a full black exponent with open ended as well.

Mike? Six-sided dice roll the same number of 6s no matter what the target number is.


I think I said that if you roll B6 dices, you would have on average one 6 to reroll, while if rolling G1 die, it's only happing one time in six, lowering the appeal of the starting gray stat.



PS A player who's priorities were to take a high Power would never purchase a gray shade Power using Power exponent dice. He'd draw dice from his Agility or Speed.

Yeah, my example was wonky, nobody would gray a stat and leave it at 1 or 2. Unless playing a "children of the gods" game :)

[Mickeroo]

Yeah that's what I meant, you have the same chance of rolling a 6, just that when you have 6 dice to roll, you tend to get more 6s then if you have 1.