Yet Another Lifepath Idea

[Trayer]

Asked of me when I was promoting BW at my local hobby shop during our wargaming night: "Where's the executioner lifepath?" I then proceded to look through the CB and found only the torturer.

So obviously the headsman would fall under the noble (longshots might also include him in village as well) and contain a few of the torturers traits/skills to, but he might also include axe, knots, gallow-wise, just to name a few. Any other suggestions?

( I considered having him with the Malign Aura trait or the lisp or hunchback traits, but after knowing Ned Stark as his own headsma, couldn't inflict that on someone without their choice)

Ciao for now,
Trayer

[luke]

recenlty read Shadow and Claw by Gene Wolfe. According to Gene, executioners would get the traits of Instant Swordmaster, Aura of Fear, and Chic Magnet.

In a more european style society, they might get the Reviled trait. But only when in mask. Aura of Fear might not be a bad trait either. Ogami Itto from Lone Wolf and Cub exudes fear.

Also, Execution (by sword or axe) should probably be a skill unto itself. It certainly is according to the fiction of Lone Wolf and Cub and Gene Wolfe. Definitely a FoRK for Axe or Sword in combat, though!

thoughts? Anyone know anything about medieval executioners? Did they really exist as a profession? They didn't make it into the CB because they never turned up in my research (and I never sought them out.)

-abzu

[Digital Apex]

Ok first off here were the normal punishments in England in 1558 as reported by William Harrison in his published work Description of England 1577-78.


"The greatest and most grievous punishment used in England for such as offend against the State is drawing from the prison to the place of execution upon an hurdle or sled, where they are hanged till they be half dead, and then taken down, and quartered alive; after that, their members and bowels are cut from their bodies, and thrown into a fire, provided near hand and within their own sight, even for the same purpose."

Varying Punishment for Commoner and Nobility

"Sometimes, if the trespass be not the more heinous, they are suffered to hang till they be quite dead. And whensoever any of the nobility are convicted of high treason by their peers, that is to say, equals (for an inquest of yeomen passeth not upon them, but only of the lords of parliament), this manner of their death is converted into the loss of their heads only. In trial of cases concerning treason, felony, or any other grievous crime not confessed, the party accused doth yield, if he be a noble man, to be tried by an inquest (as I have said) and his peers; if a gentleman, by gentlemen; and an inferior, by God and by the country, to wit, the yeomanry (for combat or battle is not greatly in use), and, being condemned of felony, manslaughter, etc., he is hanged by the neck till he be dead, and then cut down and buried. But if he be convicted of wilful murder, done either upon pretended malice or in any notable robbery, he is either hanged alive in chains near the place where the fact was committed (or else upon compassion taken, first strangled with a rope), and so continueth till his bones consume to nothing. When wilful manslaughter is perpetrated, beside hanging, the offender hath his right hand commonly stricken off before or near unto the place where the act was done, after which he is led forth to the place of execution, and there put to death according to the law."

Suicide

"Such as kill themselves are buried in the field with a stake driven through their bodies."

Theft

"Rogues and vagabonds are often stocked and whipped; scolds are ducked upon cucking-stools in the water. Such felons as stand mute, and speak not at their arraignment, are pressed to death by huge weights laid upon a board, that lieth over their breast, and a sharp stone under their backs; and these commonly held their peace, thereby to save their goods unto their wives and children, which, if they were condemned, should be confiscated to the prince. Thieves that are saved by their books and clergy, (On a side note "Saved by books and clergy"means: A man who could read had "benefits of clergy" and could receive a reduced sentence for a first offense. Women who could read did not receive the same benefit.) for the first offence, if they have stolen nothing else but oxen, sheep, money, or such like, which be no open robberies, as by the highway side, or assailing of any man's house in the night, without putting him in fear of his life, or breaking up his walls or doors, are burned in the left hand, upon the brawn of the thumb, with a hot iron, so that, if they be apprehended again, that mark betrayeth them to have been arraigned of felony before, whereby they are sure at that time to have no mercy."


When talking of being under feudal law everyone, from the greatest baron to the poorest peasant, owed allegiance to the king. A criminal was someone who by doing something wrong, "had disturbed the king's peace".

Lords were responsible for punishing minor crimes in their local courts, but serious crimes were dealt with by justices appointed by the king from among his officials and trained lawyers. The sheriff had the job of rounding up criminals and keeping them in gaol before they were brought to trial.

Conditions there were usually very dirty and crowded and prisoners often died of diseases they caught in gaol before they got to trial. While in gaol the prisoner would rely on friends and family to bring them food or money, otherwise they may well starve. Charitable people sometimes left money in their will to help prisoners buy food.

Parliaments started to make laws to deal with specific problems such as highway robbery around the 14th century. In England, the parliament asked lords to cut down all the trees and bushes for 30 feet (approx 10 metres) on each side of major roads so that robbers would have nowhere to lie in wait for passing travellers.

The punishment for wrong-doing were very harsh in the middle ages. People who were guilty of lesser offences were fined or put in the stocks but those found guilty of serious crimes such as highway robbery, stealing livestock or treason and murder were executed. Executions were carried out in public and were often watched by large crowds.

Notice something? There are no executioners jobs mentioned. That is because the lord and sheriffs was responsible for assigning someone to carry out death sentences. Normally, these would be armsmen from either the lords or the sheriffs retinue. Each man would serve as a executioner when it was his turn, if necessary. Think of it like when you are called for jury duty, you might have to serve or you might not. When called they wore the traditional dark uniform and mask for anonymity so that no one would know who the person was. Really, its that simple.

So the long answer is.. no, there was never any official job of "executioner".

Sorry for the little history lesson, but I hope this helps.

[luke]

this supports my research.

Anyone else find differently?

-L

[Digital Apex]

this supports my research.

Anyone else find differently?

-L

Unless you count eruditus's humor.... :twisted:

[eruditus]

Unless you count eruditus's humor.... :twisted:Hey, wait a minute. How'd I get involved in this discussion? :shock:
I somehow feel as I have been dis'd

[Kublai]

Does this mean there could be an Executioner path in the Soldier setting? Just a 1 year path that might give you a skill or two like Executioner training, knots, and torture? Or I suppose you could just add the Executioner training to the torturer lp.

[luke]

i think the point was if you want to stay marginally historical, no lp or training is needed. The soldiers draw straws and suddenly it is your turn to go cut heads. Just wear a mask, because the relatives of the deceased may take issue with you.

If you want to play in a more fictive or exotic world (like Lone Wolf and Cub or Shadow and Claw), then Executioner should be a lifepath, and Beheading or some such other nonsense should be a special skill one uses to make the perfect cut. And then FoRK it into your Sword or Axe skill to really impress the girls.

[Digital Apex]

If you want to play in a more fictive or exotic world (like Lone Wolf and Cub or Shadow and Claw), then Executioner should be a lifepath, and Beheading or some such other nonsense should be a special skill one uses to make the perfect cut. And then FoRK it into your Sword or Axe skill to really impress the girls.

I would hate to see the game that REQUIRED you to make a perfect cut...... :twisted:

[Durgil]

"Perfect Cut?" From what little I've heard about capital punishment in the middle ages, the authorities were not concerned at all about a nice clean beheading. For one thing that type of execution was only reserved for nobility; freeman and peasents would simply be hung. As for the executioner, it was wise, I've heard, to tip the man a small pouch of coins to do the best/quickest job. There are stories of it taking several whacks sometimes to knock off the condemmed person's head.

[Mad Hatter]

For one thing that type of execution was only reserved for nobility; freeman and peasents would simply be hung.

Just for everyone's edification, the proper past tense is hanged for a person. People are hanged, objects are hung.

No offense meant, btw, Durgil. Since death by hanging is rare these days, the proper usage is falling by the wayside.

As for the executioner, it was wise, I've heard, to tip the man a small pouch of coins to do the best/quickest job. There are stories of it taking several whacks sometimes to knock off the condemmed person's head.

Try Mary Queen of Scots.

[eruditus]

This is reflected well in the books writen by George R.R. Martin, the Song of Ice and Fire (otherwise known as Game of Thrones).

One of the main characters is a lord in an area that respects the idea that if the lord is going to pass the death penalty then he should be willing to mete it out. Notably the idea that otherwsie the lord just says "you, kill him."

(I suggest that if we are to get into a discussion about this series that it move to the Chatterer unless its specifically about how to handle headsman)

[Durgil]

Thank you, Mad Hatter for that correction; no offense taken.