Sci-Fi Lifepaths

[Falgrim]

Hey all,

I know Abzu and his crew have done more futuristic settings for Burning Wheel, but I was wondering if anyone has done a more "traditional" Sci-Fi or Space Western type lifepaths for BW? I've seen a few threads on weapons, but not lifepaths yet. Any suggestions on possible sources or links?

[Mickeroo]

I'll be working on lifepaths for a race of cyborgs, but I don't know how long it'll take me to get them done.

[Kublai]

No actual lifepaths yet, though probably have to make them for Star Wars if I run it at GGG!

[Falgrim]

I too have been contemplating doing something for Sci-Fi. I was going to try and see how far I could get by modifying the Lifepaths for Men in the Character Burner into something that could work for a futuristic type game, and to some degree that could work alright I think, but the problem comes with increased number of occupations in today's world, and in the future. For example; does one go through the trouble of trying to spell out EVERY...LAST...OCCUPATION;
Doctor
Lawyer
Scientist
Corporate Executive
etc...

Or is it best to simplify things and make very broad categories;
Blue Collar Laborer (ie: Factory Worker, Painter,...)
White Collar Worker (ie: Clerk, Businessman,...)
Blue Collar Specialist (ie: High Steel Worker, Underwater Welder, etc...)
White Collar Specialist (ie: Doctor, Lawyer, Scientist,...)

and then have people pick the Appropriate skill for their profession.

I've noticed in the new Character Burner the trend to want to differentiate each and every possible path, which certainly gives color, but have people found it necessary in their experience? I ask out of curiousity, not as a gripe.

[Ozark Tim]

How useful are other life-path type game systems in generating a BW compatible list? I'm namely thinking of Traveller and the Star Trek RPG.

Edit: deleted useless bits

[Falgrim]

How useful are other life-path type game systems in generating a BW compatible list? I'm namely thinking of Traveller and the Star Trek RPG.

Maybe you could subdivide your collar-based system into higher and lower echelons of the same color. Lawyerin' would be Upper White Collar, paper shuffling Lower White collar.Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking about with the example I gave;

Or is it best to simplify things and make very broad categories;
Blue Collar Laborer (ie: Factory Worker, Painter,...)
White Collar Worker (ie: Clerk, Businessman,...)
Blue Collar Specialist (ie: High Steel Worker, Underwater Welder, etc...)
White Collar Specialist (ie: Doctor, Lawyer, Scientist,...)


It would make things simpler as the GM, but I wonder if it would also kill some of the flavor.

[stormsweeper]

Subsettings!

White Collar Sub Setting

Clerk
Manager
Specialist
Middle Management
Executive
Senior Executive

[Mickeroo]

You could always just list the general terms as lifepaths, such as Blue Collar Worker, and then when a player chooses it, add detail. Put on the character sheet that the lifepath taken was welder, but use stats from Blue Collar Worker.

[Kublai]

Since modern living allows much more freedom and ease of social movement, creating fixed settings like the fantasy stuff that exists now will prove to be very difficult.

Settings might be broken down in far different categories than we're used to. Instead of Location-specific settings, it would have to be more socially aligned. Academic, Corporate, Military, Rural, Blue-collar, Criminal, etc...

There might be a list of Born LPs for each class you might be born into, such as Rich, Middle-Class, or Impoverished. Or there might be just one Born LP in total which everyone must take.

I think the use of "Appropriate" will be much seen. Like an College Student will have a "Choose Appropriate Major" clause where he can select from a generic list of subjects such as Math, Science, Language, Business, or Philosophy but not as specific as Nuclear Physics, which would be covered under Science. Or an Engineer lifepath will offer "Choose Appropriate Field" and list maybe Construction, Aerospace, etc.

I think there will be a lot of General Skill points given out as well. Maybe the Student Lifepath would grant 1 skill pt and offer the skill Literacy, but might grant 5 general points to be used for anything (Athletics, Music, Academics, etc).

It's definitely gonna require some new thinking on our parts.

[Redoid]

Since modern living allows much more freedom and ease of social movement, creating fixed settings like the fantasy stuff that exists now will prove to be very difficult.

That would depend heavily on the setting. For a Star Wars RPG, for example, I have the feeling that social stratification is very medieval-like for most people in the universe (judging only by the films). We have a sand planet, a forest moon, an ice planet and so on. Most people are staying on their own planet (like Luke in the begginning) and must have an opportunity to leave, like entering the naval academy, for example. So you could have subsettings depending on famous location in the Universe. Coruscant is the capitol, so only administrative tasks are done on the planet, let's have only white collar jobs here. Why bother manufacturing on Coruscant, when you have factory planets like Geonosis? Maybe taking a lead doesn't incur an age penalty, but you would definitely need a reason, if you're born Mon Calamari, to leave your world. Like, you enter the Rebellion subsettings?



I think the use of "Appropriate" will be much seen. Like an College Student will have a "Choose Appropriate Major" clause where he can select from a generic list of subjects such as Math, Science, Language, Business, or Philosophy but not as specific as Nuclear Physics, which would be covered under Science. Or an Engineer lifepath will offer "Choose Appropriate Field" and list maybe Construction, Aerospace, etc.


Yes, no need to duplicate the work to make similar lifepaths, "engineer in..."


I think there will be a lot of General Skill points given out as well. Maybe the Student Lifepath would grant 1 skill pt and offer the skill Literacy, but might grant 5 general points to be used for anything (Athletics, Music, Academics, etc).


Yeah, the biggest difference between a dark ages settings and a more modern or futuristic one is the ability anyone has to get access to information. I know nothing of, say, Chinese. I can easily buy a method with audio cd and books, and get with a little effort a basic grasp of Chinese. In the past, I would have been stuck. In fact, I would'nt even know of China in the first place. Fear the power of the Google skill, forkable in ANY situation.

[Falgrim]

Exactly, that is pretty much the problem I was running into in my experimenting with Lifepaths.

I was thinking of splitting the lifepaths up into 4 main and sets and a few subsets.

I had split them up into;
Born on the Fringe;
People born on the outermost, or least hospitable, worlds. The paths would be very specific to surviving on their planet. If one had to give a Star Wars example say Hoth or Dagobah.

Born on the Frontier;
People born on the settled edge of space. Similar to being born on the Fringe in that it is far from centralized governement and main supply routes, but the worlds would be more thoroughly terraformed and thus offer more opportunity and be a little less survival oriented. Another Star Warsian example might be Tatooine.

Born on the Coreworlds;
People born in the core hub. These are obviously the most industrialized and most urban planets. they have access to most of the resources and would be the most general lifepaths. Sort of like one might picture earth in the far future, or Coruscant in Star Wars.

Born to Priviledge Coreworlds;
This might be handled as a sub setting, but I was thinking of making it a setting all on it's own. This might be the Princess Leigh's, George Bush's, and Adelai Niska's of the future.

Then perhaps other subsettings would be good to fill things out, or they might just be unnecessary, because as you say there is more social mobility than in a medeival setting. My main reason for wanting to base things off of the pre-existing Lifepaths was for figuring out skill alotments and such, but even that would have to be worked over, so going with what exists might turn out to be a fruitless effort that is more troublesome then helpful.

[cawshis]

I think your subsettings are very neat! I say line 'em up with BW's already extensive and most excellent Lifepaths. Pardon the pun, but why reinvent the wheel? Taking your groups above, put them with BW's:

Born Fringe - Born Peasant
Born Frontier - Born Village
Born Core - Born City
Born Privilage - Born Noble

Then I'd say reorg some of the job names/skills. Luke already has things like "Surgeon" which requires "Student", so pow. You have a doctor. I'd say even use his subsettings!

Noble Sub futurized becomes Bureaucracy or perhaps Government
Soldier Sub futurized is pretty much Soldier
Outcast Sub futurized is Criminal
Religious Sub futurized is Cult of Space (or what have you)
Slave Sub is Slave? - if your game has these.

Then you can pick and choose to eliminate the ones that don't fit (like Sorceror) and rename the ones that do (like Bowyer is now Gunner or Rifle-maker or whatever). Change the skill names, mix up the required traits to better fit your world and you've got a skeleton that needs some tweaking but not a major rebuilding.

[Falgrim]

I think your subsettings are very neat! I say line 'em up with BW's already extensive and most excellent Lifepaths. Pardon the pun, but why reinvent the wheel? Taking your groups above, put them with BW's:

Born Fringe - Born Peasant
Born Frontier - Born Village
Born Core - Born City
Born Privilage - Born Noble

Then I'd say reorg some of the job names/skills. Luke already has things like "Surgeon" which requires "Student", so pow. You have a doctor. I'd say even use his subsettings!

Noble Sub futurized becomes Bureaucracy or perhaps Government
Soldier Sub futurized is pretty much Soldier
Outcast Sub futurized is Criminal
Religious Sub futurized is Cult of Space (or what have you)
Slave Sub is Slave? - if your game has these.

Then you can pick and choose to eliminate the ones that don't fit (like Sorceror) and rename the ones that do (like Bowyer is now Gunner or Rifle-maker or whatever). Change the skill names, mix up the required traits to better fit your world and you've got a skeleton that needs some tweaking but not a major rebuilding.
This is exactly what I've been toying with, but I'm not so sure it's working, which is part of my reasoning behiind asking how other people may have, or would do it. I had the exact same sentiment. I'd like to use the current paths of men as a basis for the Sci-Fi ones, but the conversion seems too imperfect.

It also begs the question on whether I should add more paths for things that have no analogous medeival lifepath equivalent, which winds up being A LOT of new paths, or should I broaden the scope of the individual paths and allow them to fill more general roles that the player can flesh out. So do I make seperate paths for Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, or do I condense these into White Collared Specialist and let the player pick the Appropriate skill for what their specialization is? I'm leaning toward the broader paths I think.

Also, skills are tough. Are people more skilled in a Sci-Fi setting, or are they just less specialized? Should most of the paths be given a few General Skill points in addition to their path skills? Or should I just give out more specific Skills and points per path? This is where I feel like I'm really running into a brick wall.

[luke]

ok, dan, you really need to answer a few questions first.

Namely, what's the premise of your setting. Not even Burning Wheel recreates "the world." It uses small details to create the illusion of fullness.

What is it exactly that you are trying to accomplish?

-L

[Falgrim]

I am trying to create lifepaths for a Space Western/ Sci-Fi setting mainly, just to see how it could be done. BW is already tried and true for Medeiva settings and the like, and I know you all have been using it for other stuff so I figured I'd give the setting a shot. I went for a Space Western Sci Fi feel, rather than a High Technology Alien plentiful genre, because of the easier conversion presumably, since there wouldn't be any need to make lifepaths for said aliens.

As I said, I'm thinking of using less but more versatile paths, rather than more but more specific lifepaths, for simplicity's and versatility's sake.
My real issue is with determining what a good balance of skill points and skills would be for such a setting, since characters will presumably have a somewhat greater knowledge base and a somewhat greater need for this increased knowledge base. However, I don't want characters to start off amazing at EVERYTHING right off the bat. I suppose it would be best to present you with a small example of a setting and what I've come up with for critique, but I haven't quite gotten to that yet.
:P

So any suggestions on how people have balance such things in their settings would be appreciated.

[luke]

So any suggestions on how people have balance such things in their settings would be appreciated.

I'm absolutely not trying to be a dick when I say this: If you want balance LPs for BW, then use the guidelines in the Monster Burner and the examples in the CB and MB. If you go the route you're heading, you're just making more work for yourself. Possibly even a whole 'nuther game for yourself.

A Sci-Fi Western frontier setting should be pretty easy. A couple of settings -- Range, Industrial Combine, Colonial Infantry and Town -- and about a dozen paths for each setting and you're all set!

-L

[cawshis]

I assumed you were creating a "general" science fiction baseline from which to work from. I'd say we're more specialized now, but with more knowledge.

Have you thought about using traits to denote this "general skill" knowledge thing? Like give allthe players in your game have the "Citizen of the Galaxy" trait...this would make them literate, computer saavy and perhaps know a bit about basic stuff? It'd be silly to make a person like myself roll a die to see if they fail to post to a message board. But an "Advanced Computers" skill might be needed to hack the boards (for example).

I dunno. Luke asks a good question...what's the setting?

[stormsweeper]

I'm guessing a Firefly-class freighter. ;)

[Kublai]

Maybe slightly tangental to your setting, but as for Aliens, they are simply trait packages added on to the generic LPs. This is especially true for Star Wars/Star Trek settings. In these, aliens and humans shared occupations equally, so there were no LPs that were restricted to anyone. The only difference was their shape and qualities.

In Star Trek, for example, I would offer the Vulcan Package: Pointed Ears, Long-Lived, Mentally Disciplined, and Healthy.

[Falgrim]

So any suggestions on how people have balance such things in their settings would be appreciated.

I'm absolutely not trying to be a dick when I say this: If you want balance LPs for BW, then use the guidelines in the Monster Burner and the examples in the CB and MB. If you go the route you're heading, you're just making more work for yourself. Possibly even a whole 'nuther game for yourself.

A Sci-Fi Western frontier setting should be pretty easy. A couple of settings -- Range, Industrial Combine, Colonial Infantry and Town -- and about a dozen paths for each setting and you're all set!

-LOh, I couldn't agree more Luke, which is why I'm fishing for what OTHER people have done, so I don't have to go totally insane doing it all. However, as many will atest who know me as a GM, I LOVE doing this sort of stuff. Back when I was doing my own campaign setting for D&D I handed out a 50+ page write up explaining aspects of the world, religion, etc... that players could use at their leisure for reference material. So I guess I could use a new project. :)

Have you thought about using traits to denote this "general skill" knowledge thing? Like give allthe players in your game have the "Citizen of the Galaxy" trait...this would make them literate, computer saavy and perhaps know a bit about basic stuff? It'd be silly to make a person like myself roll a die to see if they fail to post to a message board. But an "Advanced Computers" skill might be needed to hack the boards (for example).

I like this idea a lot. I may toy with it a little. Of course for such general things one might not even have to make a rule for it, and simply operate under the understanding that everyone knows how to read unless they chose otherwise with a trait. Still, the idea in general has some promise.

I'm guessing a Firefly-class freighter.
I do likes me some Firefly, but I'm not sure I'd bite directly from the show. Too many people "know" it and therefore have formed their own ideas about it. I generally don't like to use exact copies of worlds, because it offers too many problems with interpretation. No GM wants to hear "But Gandalf wouldn't do that he'd do this!"

Maybe slightly tangental to your setting, but as for Aliens, they are simply trait packages added on to the generic LPs. This is especially true for Star Wars/Star Trek settings. In these, aliens and humans shared occupations equally, so there were no LPs that were restricted to anyone. The only difference was their shape and qualities.

In Star Trek, for example, I would offer the Vulcan Package: Pointed Ears, Long-Lived, Mentally Disciplined, and Healthy.

That's something to think about, but I'll still probably stay away from aliens. Aspects of Sci Fi roleplaying a hard enough to get across without introducing the complications of alien interactions to muck up the works. Besides, I'm sick of the ridgy forehead alien, who's basically human alien. If I did aliens I'd make them truly alien and nigh impossible to have meaningful, in the human sense, interactions with them. Like the Horta. :D