Two Fisted Fighting question

[Yagathai]

Let's say I have 2-fisted fighting and am using a hatchet and a small sword.

I script a strike with both weapons, and split my seven dice 4/3 hatchet/sword. I get 3 successes / 2 successes against an Ob 2 to hit.

My opponent has scripted a block. He rolls 3 successes.

How are his block successes allocated? Does he get to decide, or do I do, or is there some recommended impartial mechanism?

[Kevin]

It seems reasonable that he should get to decide, although I would suggest that he should declare which attack he's blocking before the dice are rolled.

[Mickeroo]

I would say that the blocker gets to block one attack of his choice. It wouldn't make sense to be able to move a shield in the way of two attacks at once, but he can decide where to put it.

[luke]

Let's say I have 2-fisted fighting and am using a hatchet and a small sword.

I script a strike with both weapons, and split my seven dice 4/3 hatchet/sword. I get 3 successes / 2 successes against an Ob 2 to hit.

My opponent has scripted a block. He rolls 3 successes.

How are his block successes allocated? Does he get to decide, or do I do, or is there some recommended impartial mechanism?

You're really scripting one move to his one move -- block to strike. So I'd let the defender choose his fate.

-L

[Yagathai]

Hmmm. So, Luke, what you're saying is that he can choose to block the one or the other, but not both?

Because otherwise he could allocate two block successes to the hatchet strike and one to the sword strike and block both.

[luke]

Hmmm. So, Luke, what you're saying is that he can choose to block the one or the other, but not both?

Because otherwise he could allocate two block successes to the hatchet strike and one to the sword strike and block both.


Has this come up in play or is this a theoretical question? If it's come up in play, what felt like the right thing to do?

If it's a theoretical question, what feels right to you? And reverse it, too. What feels right as a player, vs what feels right as a GM.

-L

[Yagathai]

Has this come up in play or is this a theoretical question? If it's come up in play, what felt like the right thing to do?

If it's a theoretical question, what feels right to you? And reverse it, too. What feels right as a player, vs what feels right as a GM.

Listen, pal, I'm the one asking the questions around here, OK? If I wanted namby-pamby-how-do-you-feel-about-that questions instead of real answers, I'd be talking to a Unitarian minister. :evil:

But to answer you (even though what you really deserve is a kick in the teeth, for taking out the Speed multiplier for gray-shade), it's a theoretical question, and honestly I'm not sure. I mean, I could see it going either way. One the one hand, a sweep of a staff could knock both weapons out of the way. On the other hand, I can see someone with a targe raising his shield to block a hatchet chop, only to take a sword thrust in the thigh for his presumption.

And I could see both players feeling equally cheated by whatever ruling that I as a GM would make. The attacker would cry because it's not especially realistic, and the defender would cry because the two-weapon attack is essentially a cheeseball move unless you can negate it with a single block.

I'm conflicted.

[Kublai]

It's a cheeseball move for sure, but that doesn't meet someone can negate it just because they don't like it. I would allow the blocker to choose only one strike to block before any dice are rolled.

Although, there is a part of me that says if the blocker has a shield and a weapon, why can't he block both at the same time?

Two-weapon fighting allows you to split your attack? Huh. I always thought it allowed something else, like to use the secondary weapon as a shield, or allow sequential strikes with slow weapons. Splitting the attack is a big advantage!

[luke]

well, mechanically, the attacker is getting a double obstacle penalty. he's got to beat Ob 4 to hit with both weapons. He gets three successes over and these are divided between his attacks. But we muddy the waters by making him declare and divide before rolling. However, I think his extra obstacle penalty is worth noting.

However #2, the defender is going to just waste successes if he blocks the hatchet. 3 successes vs 2? He's still got an extra success and their's still more attack coming his way. Mechanically, he's owed that success. Mechanically, his Block reduces successes from a Strike, period. Block doesn't care that you're performing some fancy-pants cheating maneuver.

And to the claims of realism and verisimilitude, I say poo. A Block is not a wall raised betwixt you and your opponent, it is a deflection. And it is well within the realm of ability of must fighters to deflect both hands of their erstwhile attacker.

That said, I'd force the defender to pick a weapon to deflect. Any extra successes would roll over to the other. So in this case, if I deflected the Hatchet, I'd still get hit by the Sword. And if I deflected the Sword, I'd still get hit by the Hatchet.

But I'm wearing armor, right? Can I reroll my 6 to get an extra success to my Block so I can deflec the hatchet?

-L

[Yagathai]

well, mechanically, the attacker is getting a double obstacle penalty. he's got to beat Ob 4 to hit with both weapons. He gets three successes over and these are divided between his attacks. But we muddy the waters by making him declare and divide before rolling. However, I think his extra obstacle penalty is worth noting.


Hmmm. I hadn't looked at it that way, but you're right. It is really like an OB 4 test, not two ob 2 tests.

Of course, that makes a world of difference in terms of advancement. Well, probably not if he's throwing 7 dice, but it would if he's throwing 5.

That said, I'd force the defender to pick a weapon to deflect. Any extra successes would roll over to the other. So in this case, if I deflected the Hatchet, I'd still get hit by the Sword. And if I deflected the Sword, I'd still get hit by the Hatchet.

Hmmm. That seems fair and equitable. That way the blocker gets all the advantages of his block, and stands a chance of blocking both.

But I'm wearing armor, right? Can I reroll my 6 to get an extra success to my Block so I can deflec the hatchet?

Yes. But only if you have the Sentient Animated Armor trait.

[Angaros]

well, mechanically, the attacker is getting a double obstacle penalty. he's got to beat Ob 4 to hit with both weapons. He gets three successes over and these are divided between his attacks. But we muddy the waters by making him declare and divide before rolling. However, I think his extra obstacle penalty is worth noting.

However #2, the defender is going to just waste successes if he blocks the hatchet. 3 successes vs 2? He's still got an extra success and their's still more attack coming his way. Mechanically, he's owed that success. Mechanically, his Block reduces successes from a Strike, period. Block doesn't care that you're performing some fancy-pants cheating maneuver.
So, in essence, the Two Fisted Fighting training doesn't do anything when it comes to actually attacking with two weapons at the same time? I mean, if the defender can use his successes against both attacks then the skill only grants you the ability to alternate attacking weapon (thus making slow weapons fast) and use one weapon as a parrying blade (+1D). A knife fighter would only benefit from the parrying blade advantage since his weapons are fast anyway. (Got a player building such a character which is why I'm asking)

[Kublai]

You've pretty much got it. Unlike D+D's Two-weapon fighting (which I myself know well!) you don't get extra attacks or anything like that. Still, the benefits it does confer are pretty rockin'.

[Thor Olavsrud]

So, in essence, the Two Fisted Fighting training doesn't do anything when it comes to actually attacking with two weapons at the same time? I mean, if the defender can use his successes against both attacks then the skill only grants you the ability to alternate attacking weapon (thus making slow weapons fast) and use one weapon as a parrying blade (+1D). A knife fighter would only benefit from the parrying blade advantage since his weapons are fast anyway. (Got a player building such a character which is why I'm asking)

It is essentially Shield Training. Its disadvantage is that you get fewer shield dice. The advantage is that you can potentially make back-to-back (non-hilt) Strikes even if one of your weapons is Slow.

[Yagathai]

Let's not forget that it gives you the chance to do two simultaneous wounds, which is no small potatoes.