you came in that, you're braver than I thought

[Kaare Berg]

Paka mentioned it, now I'm going to ask it.

Have anyone thought about using the current system for spaceships.

I'm playing with an idea; WH40K: Rouge Traders Wheel, and the prospect of the Gnostic Avenger dodging kinetic missiles from Inqusitoral Frigates because of some small misunderstanding about the Xenotech in the Gnostic Avengers hold looms in the future.

Any thoughts?

Any ideas how to keep this within the framework of the current rules, like three shades and no exponent above ten. Its easy enough to convert ships and say that their scales are so large that they are untouchable by normal man.

have some i'm bouncing about. More later.

*edited to fix something unimportant

[Paka]

I think the Fire and Cover rules will do ship to ship combat with just a little futzing.

I could be wrong but it feels right.

[Kaare Berg]

I'm with you, but due to a little snafu I'll have to get by with my BW secret agent kit until the 28th. Bitter? Me? noooooo.

I was thinking about damage and such.

[Thor Olavsrud]

The Range and Cover rules are actually descended from BW's original dogfighting rules, in its first incarnation as a Sci-Fi game. I don't think you'll have any trouble using them. In fact, a little birdie told me that Kublai is hard at work creating Burning Star Wars for a 6 session campaign he's planning.

[Kublai]

Considering Range and Cover was inspired by our Star Wars dogfighting rules, I think you'll find them more than apt for your purposes.

The base test should be the Piloting skill. Add to this Advantage dice for fastest ship, most maneuverable ship, highest reflexes, and longest weapon range. Maybe even longest sensor range as well?

The pilot who wins will be in prime position to pull off a shot, aim, or gain extra positioning dice for the next volley.

Starfighters ought to be a high-Black to mid-Grey shade in terms of damage given and hull strength, while capital ships will be in the high-grey to low-white scale. Stuff like the Death Star is high White.

Energy Shields work like Armor dice.

Hull Strength is how many dice the ship can lose before it is destroyed.

Jammers will deny the Sensor advantage die of your opponent.

Ion weapons ignore shields and reduce the hull, but will not damage the ship - much like a subdue or lock.

[Kane]

Thanks for the info, Kublai. That's really helpful.

Would you consider adding scripted maneuvers into the mix?

[Kaare Berg]

This was my intial idea. All hail the revised edition. (when it gets here)

Hull Strength is how many dice the ship can lose before it is destroyed.

You use Hull Strength to factor the ship's PTGS, right?

For the detail freaks:

Engines (power)
Hull Strength (forte)
Maneuver Jets (agility)
Engine Thrust (speed)
and for the real freaks
Sensors (Perception)
System Integrity (Will)

With traits like Jury-rigged systems, Rugged design, Cranky AI, tempramental.

And suddenly you have a whole new NPC to add to the party.

Any volunteers for the Ship-burner?

[Kublai]

I always wanted to figure out how to give named maneuvers a place in the dogfight. Such tactics would require scripting and not positioning, though, to get that rock, paper, scissors effect found in the Fight! mechanics.

[Kublai]

negilent, those are pretty awshum! Daunting, but awshum!

I had an idea that different types or makes of ship parts would give you more or less dice. Like a Acme lasblaster would grant 1D of firepower, but a EVG-III Quadlaser would grant 4D. Or a Skipbeam engine would grant 1D, but a Vorvox Red would grant 4D.

Such would make it fun for the gear heads who wanted to customize their ships.

[Drozdal]

What about rockets/torpedos? I think those babies should have their own positioning dice (and maybe one or two D from targeting computer on board).

[Kublai]

Ah! Good call Dro! We did come up with such rules.

Rockets don't get their own positioning dice, they are dumb weapons much like a blaster, though their range is far greater.

As for Missles, they would get their own positioning tests. We had them last for 3 exchanges before running out of gas. Depending on the model of the missles, they would get something like 6-10 dice for Piloting, B4-6 Reflexes, Very fast speed, very maneuverable, and variable range sensors.

Ships could position against them to try to shoot them out of the air before they impacted.

[Kane]

I think scripting dogfights is possible. Let's try this. Each participant scripts a maneuver. Each maneuver is strong against one type of maneuver, and weak against another. The pliot who scripted the winning maneuver gets a +1D or +2D bonus to his Piloting test.

For example, one pilot scripts Pursuit, and the other scripts Bootlegger Turn. Bootlegger Turn beats Pursuit, so the pilot who scripted the Bootlegger Turn gets +1D to his Piloting check.

[TimP]

bootleg turn? bah. :)

You need some good 'ole WWI/WWII fighter combat maneuvers for space opera flavor. Here's a link to a site with handy-dandy diagrams.

http://www.fearsquadron.com/2%20Tactics.htm

Of course, I don't think there's any easy Immelman beats Split S matchup or anything.

In a hard sci-fi setting stand-off munitions, lasers, meson beams and shit like that are going to make dogfighting a pointless exercise. That's no fun though.


Tim

[Kaare Berg]

Ships could position against them to try to shoot them out of the air before they impacted.

or spend positioning sucesses to use deflector shields.

weapons would be weapons. Make a list from small ones to the big ones in the grey - white range.

Engines and such would be better serverd as call on traits. "What two Locust fighters, damn I call on my ships Gryphonne Fusion engines, thats one die." Since you have the stats as dice. Engine thrust B4 compared to Locust Fighters engine thrust at B5 (less oomph (Engine) but smaller mass).

you want to improve your trust, well a B4 Engine Trust requires two difficult (ob 3 or 4) or one challenging (ob 5+) Engineering test after either two difficult (ob 3or 4) or one (ob 5+) Resources tests to get the parts.

Here traits like jury rigged systems can be called on.

And you can put die caps on the different scores based on ship classes. A fighter class ship can not have a Hull strength shade higher than Black and exponent over 5 simply because it is too small to withstand higher levels of punishment.

[skandall]

This is such cool stuff! Now we need a character sheet for space ships and a PDF of all these rules.

Normally I run my super evil Star Wars game with the D20 rules, but at the rate people keep demonstrating how well Star Wars would fit into BW I think I may just use it instead.

[Kublai]

I think scripting dogfights is possible. Let's try this. Each participant scripts a maneuver. Each maneuver is strong against one type of maneuver, and weak against another. The pliot who scripted the winning maneuver gets a +1D or +2D bonus to his Piloting test.

For example, one pilot scripts Pursuit, and the other scripts Bootlegger Turn. Bootlegger Turn beats Pursuit, so the pilot who scripted the Bootlegger Turn gets +1D to his Piloting check.

Ha! A perfect mesh of my two intentions! A Persona point for Kane!

[Kaare Berg]

you want to improve your trust, well a B4 Engine Trust requires two difficult (ob 3 or 4) or one challenging (ob 5+) Engineering test after either two difficult (ob 3or 4) or one (ob 5+) Resources tests to get the parts.
without explaining where I got this from.

The advancement rules for stats.

Sorry about that.