High Powered Campaigns

[Judd]

I ran a game of BW, a little two-shot with two Elves and two Humans. Good stuff.

It was the first time I had run for 3/4 of the group, so I had to be gentle and really guide the character creation. When Kris was making her Elven Princess, she was in shock.

Kris: You are going to let me make her a princess.

Me: Sure.

Kris: So many DM's I know would be uncomfortable with a starting level character having this much power. I mean, she's an Elven Princess.

Me: Not me. Why should I be scared of you having power?

I think many people are taken in by the first level syndrom and want their players to claw their way to the top. In some games that's cool but in others, in epic fantasy games, I want my players to be epic heroes, dammit.

High power just means more responsibility, more duty. Sure, the Elven Lord Protector is going to be able to kick major ass. He'd better be able to. He has a Citadel to keep safe and sound.

Other thoughts on high powered games?

[Thor]

The thing about high powered games is that the conflict has to escalate to meet the power level. The consequence for failure have to become incredibly dire. In other words, you have to raise the stakes.

Of course, in Burning Wheel, even the lowliest bitter grave digger is just a knife's edge away from death or maiming. So it's really hard to escalate with simple, individual danger.

I think a blend of personal (I'm talking soap opera level melodrama here) and serious external threat work wonderfully in achieving this. BUT, to accomplish this, you need serious buy in. Buy in to the setting and buy in to the characters.

Thoughts? Ideas on how to accomplish this?

[Mickeroo]

I like to use relationships for this. If a fair maiden is in trouble, the PCs are much more likely to actually want to save her if she's someone's sister of childhood sweetheart. There's your external threat. Then, within the party, maybe she is adorded by two of the party memebers, or her brother doesn't think that the town drunk is an appropriate partner for his sister. That sounds pretty soap opera-ish.

[TimP]

I think a blend of personal (I'm talking soap opera level melodrama here) and serious external threat work wonderfully in achieving this. BUT, to accomplish this, you need serious buy in. Buy in to the setting and buy in to the characters.

I think that's why the 'claw your way up from the bottom' thing has been the default for so long. The genuine weight of player experience in the world creates that investment and buy in. By the time your 10th level and can finally build that keep and get your 5d20+30 men at arms you might actually give a shit about the relationships you've built, the world, and what happens to it.

I can envision BITs being an awesome way around all those old styles of play: they SHOULD create investment right off the bat, but to tell the truth, I find it hard to break out of the same old ruts and I read this board all the time. How much harder is it going to be for the average player who doesn't geek out over this stuff 24 hours a day?

It's very similar to the early days of DnD/AD&D in this way: you've got all these rules and tools for this new thing, but you (meaning me) don't know how to play the game the way the author intends. You miss a lot of the nuances, and the nuances aren't really nuances at all: they're the main thing! BW revised is a LOT better than classic at explaining how to use BITs and artha, but it's got to fight a lot of inertia.

[Thor]

I can envision BITs being an awesome way around all those old styles of play

YES!!! That is what I was not so subtly hinting at. The tools are all there: Beliefs, Relationships, Reputations. The other ingredient is player involvement in setting up the campaign. They have to care about what's happening. The best way to accomplish that is for them to have a hand in the creation of the situation. That doesn't mean they have to know all the secrets and whatnot. But if you give them a chance to suggest some of the complications, they will then turn around and create characters designed to dive head first into those very complications.

And they will have game-gasms when those complications come up in play in unexpected ways.

And Tim, I appreciate the inertia thing. But I think we've done all we can do in terms of the books, and we supplement it by providing feedback on these boards and talking about the way we play. I don't think there's much more we can do. But as long as everyone's having fun, who cares? :lol:

[TimP]

And Tim, I appreciate the inertia thing. But I think we've done all we can do in terms of the books, and we supplement it by providing feedback on these boards and talking about the way we play. I don't think there's much more we can do. But as long as everyone's having fun, who cares? :lol:


Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to imply any sort of lack of diligence on the part of you guys. The revision does a great job of explaining what BW is really about and this board is an invaluable resource.

And I have always had fun playing BW. The original thing that attracted me to BW was the feel of the combat system and the wonderful lifepaths. It fits exactly with my vision of how a fantasy world should be. Even without understanding the full implication of BITs Burning Wheel inspired my play. Now that I'm beginning to understand BITs, circles, affiliations, relationships the future looks very exciting indeed.