Will combat work without armor?

[Michael S. Miller]

Well, real life has stepped in a slapped my embryonic BW game into a state of limbo. What was to be our first session of play got cancelled, as did a back-up date. And everyone has vacation plans of different sorts in June. But we will get to it at some point.

On the plus side, I have a bit more time to remedy my woeful lack of preparation. The more I discuss the "pirate-ness" of the game with my players, I'm certain they have Pirates of the Caribbean firmly in mind. Okay, 17th-18th century it is! Dial down the Tolkien, dial up the politics and economics. Not a problem.

One question, though. Nobody's really wearing armor any more by this period in history. Is that going to make things difficult in the combat system? I seem to recall a couple melee demos where those armor rolls were all that stood between a character and bloody death. Do you folks with more BW experience foresee problems on the horizon?

[Ozark Tim]

Some British musketeers, namely redcoat marines, wore thick leather neck collars specifically to ward off blows to the throat.

But you are right, it might make it awkward to lose a significant chunk of the combat rules. You might make up for it by handig out persona points to beat the band and provide lots of complications, or if you are feeling rules improvisey you might make up a save that takes the place of armor; maybe a guaranteed dodge that works exactly like an armor roll.

[luke]

we play fights without armor all the time.
The deadliness of each combat much be impressed upon the players. Armor allows for that "knightly" feel. There's none of that in pirate land.

Defensive actions and stances become much more important.

-L

[foxandwarlock]

In BW, there is very little that is more chilling then hearing the GM say, "Okay, he hits you in the chest and spends one of his successes to move it to your <insert unarmored location here>."

It means that you're taking that damage and there's no two ways about it. No buying it off with poker chips (Deadlands), no rolling A.R. (Palladium) - the only thing you can do is smile, take it in the face, and hope that its not to high on your wound chart.

All that being said, I think that the nature of this will lead to a very, very accurate feeling for the era. Pirates risked life and limb everytime they climbed overboard which is why they usually tried to break the other ship's morale with fear before they ever stepped foot on deck.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Some British musketeers, namely redcoat marines, wore thick leather neck collars specifically to ward off blows to the throat.

Except Stocks were so universally loathed by all private soldiers (they invariably caused sores and blisters on the throat and chin), that they almost always 'disappeared' within days of battalions leaving their parade grounds.

Michael,

In addition to highlighting the importance of stances and defensive actions, make sure to employ the Persona point for complications rule (system book, page. 70). Not only will this increase survivability, it has the added bonus of increasing the swashbuckling feel.

You'll just have to make sure they understand that they need to work extra hard to make sure they're earning Persona frequently, and also be more generous than you might otherwise be in awarding Persona.

[Kublai]

Somehow, my character survived for an extremely long time without the use of any armor. Choosing your fights carefully and smart scripts made sure of that. Of course, I still took wounds which kept me down for periods of time, but I only really took a MW once, and that was from an assassin's arrow.

[Manicrack]

I think the main reason for the lack of armor back then was that bullets could just penetrate it without problems.
So if they want armor, give it to them... then show them what good it is gonna do.

In order to lower the risk of them dying to early you might wanna think about having dumb opponents. By that I mean to not script to the best of your abilities in the beginning, until they know the system well enought to watch out for their own backs.

That is one thing I also like about BW. You can keep your players alive without fudging dice.

--

[luke]

In order to lower the risk of them dying to early you might wanna think about having dumb opponents. By that I mean to not script to the best of your abilities in the beginning, until they know the system well enought to watch out for their own backs.

That is one thing I also like about BW. You can keep your players alive without fudging dice.

--

While indelicately put, Kolja has a good point. Not using your opponents to their best advantage is a great way to keep players in the game while they find their feet.

-L

[donbaloo]

I by no means claim to have any mastery of the scripting system yet but I had planned to do just what Manicrack suggested when scripting combat in my games. I figured once I get the hang of it I'd script the players' opponents according to their combat skills. If they aren't very skilled I plan to script them poorly. If they're up against a well-known swordsman or the like, I'll script him craftily. Is this standard procedure or do you experienced folks tend to script even the mooks using your own experience of the system as opposed to their experience in combat?

[Kaare Berg]

You might make up for it by handig out persona points to beat the band and provide lots of complications

If you are going for a Pirate of the Caribbean feel this is the way to go.
One, you'll ensure they play their BITs to the hilt for those life-saving persona and two, you wont have to fudge since responsibility for player survival lies completely in the hands of the players.

Besides complications are great fun.

[Kublai]

Is this standard procedure or do you experienced folks tend to script even the mooks using your own experience of the system as opposed to their experience in combat?

I script most mooks dumb and predictable. Even then, it may take my players a few exchanges to realize I've been using the same script every time! Sheesh.

[Fourth Horseman]

Somehow, my character survived for an extremely long time without the use of any armor. Choosing your fights carefully and smart scripts made sure of that. Of course, I still took wounds which kept me down for periods of time, but I only really took a MW once, and that was from an assassin's arrow.

Of course what Kublai wont tell you is that this charactrer was an insanely powerful D&D conversion that you couldn't possibly oull out of the current rules. And in the end he STILL ended up wearing a tin can like a sissy.

The key to sucess in an armorless environment is simple . . . cowardice. I played a three lp character who didn't own a decent set of armor until his third campaign. Moreover, he didn't even have a decent melee skill. How'd he survive?--by taking out most opponents by ambush at range when he could, by hanging toward the back of the pack and letting everybody else take licks during melee, and by acting like a general buffoon so nobody would take him seriously and ignore him leading into a fight. As he survived and his skills grew he increasingly became more and more confident in melee.

Picking your fights and stances helps out a lot. Avoiding fights altogether helps even more. Still, I don't see how somebody playing someone with a highly developed sense of honor can survive too long in an armorless melee environment. History of course bares this out . . .

You might consider having players burn multiple characters that they can switch between, if you don't think they'll be into the coward thing.

[Kublai]

Of course what Kublai wont tell you is that this charactrer was an insanely powerful D&D conversion that you couldn't possibly oull out of the current rules. And in the end he STILL ended up wearing a tin can like a sissy.

Perhaps you weren't part of the campaign where we all played 4-lifepath martial artist students? None of those characters wore armor either and at least half lived through the campaign, including my own character who was the weakest!

[Fourth Horseman]

Perhaps you weren't part of the campaign where we all played 4-lifepath martial artist students?!

Your point, do you have a point? Oh here it is:

None of those characters wore armor either and at least half lived through the campaign, including my own character who was the weakest!

Half survived one campaign? Stellar. So after two more campaigns they are all dead? How many campaigns did the ubermensch survive before the assasin's bolt took hm down?

My point and I think you've illustrated it nicely, thank you, is that if you want to survive without armor it is possible--but just don't expect to be playing the charge through the rable knight . . . because the rabble will eventually kill your ass without that tin can to save you.

[Kublai]

I am glad my humor wasn't wasted on you, good sir.

[mike_ravenwood]

Forgoing armor in your standard BW game maybe a bit on the crazy side when your opponets are running around in plated chain. I have had a few players give it a try and some of them have been successful. In a swashbuckling game on the other hand both opponents aren't armored and the scripting will reflect a more caucious approach. Also fighting on a crowed heaving deck with marines firing volleys into the opposing crews isn't quite the same Ob as on dry land. PC's can team up and help each other to overcome increased Ob and the danger of getting one shotted buy their opponents. Makes for some exciting roleplaying and I don't think BW needs armor to make combat "work".