2 handed weapons

[Piikki]

Propably could do this by myself too, but better ask while i can.
So how to adjust stats for 2 handed weapons ?
Any ideas about flails ?

[stormsweeper]

I think the stats are already worked in, although I don't have my books with me.

[luke]

Page 258 of the BW. Weapons that that are two handed are noted with a "1" footnote.

-L

[Kublai]

Flails? They ignore shield blocks is all I know. Probably statted like a mace, too.

[luke]

didn't see the question about flails.
page 190 of the BW. As pete said, they use Mace stats.

-L

[Piikki]

I noticed that, but what about for example 2h sword. didn't see that. It is just +1 power ?
Somehow i managed to miss that whole flail thing.

[Thor Olavsrud]

I believe the reason there is no two-handed sword or Zweihander in the list is that it is not part of the early medieval period that the Human settings focus on. Two-handers did not really come into vogue until late Renaissance.

The early Zweihanders did not really start appearing until the mid-14th to 15th centuries, and were primarily used on the battlefield with a technique called half-swording, where the left hand gripped the blade about halfway down it's length, and the sword was used as a kind of spear to punch through armor (which most swords are very poor at).

I suppose if I had to have one in my game, I'd make it:
Power 2, Add 2, Fast, VA 1, Long.

The two-handers that I think you're thinking of did not really start appearing until the 16th and 17th centuries, and I don't believe they lasted on the battlefield very long. I would treat it just like a polearm.

[Fourth Horseman]

From what I understand there is a lot of debate in the academic community on whether the zweihander, flamberge, marital aid--or whatever the hell you want to call it--was ever even used on the battlefield to kill people. Some heretics have suggested it was used by Landsnechts to cut the heads off the pikes used by hated rival swiss mercenaries. Then again I've scene some rather colorful renaissance snuff prints that clearly show someone using a twohander to chop off both the arms of an opponent in one stroke. In any event ALL two handed weapons in BW have a +1 pip add on for damage. As the philosophy behind weapon damage is that there really isn't much damn difference between them in the grand scheme of things, I doubt Luke would allow ye olde two handed sword, flail, or thorgrim's hammer for that matter to be so distinguished from the rest.

Do yourself a favor, give the character a hand and a half, what varlets like to call a bastard sword, for extra flexibility. Indeed, until the 16th century, or unless you were hanging out on the Celtic fringe, it was usually the biggest boy on the block.

[Manicrack]

I suppose if I had to have one in my game, I'd make it:
Power 2, Add 2, Fast, VA 1, Long.


Fast? Really?
I mean, I don't know that much about medieval(or renaissance) martial arts, but by what I know I would thing it was slower than a sword, so basically unwieldy.
Or is my notion of a hun bringing this heavy blade into position before he can swing it full force to do major damage wrong?

--

[Kublai]

I too would make it Unwieldy!

[Thor Olavsrud]

I suppose if I had to have one in my game, I'd make it:
Power 2, Add 2, Fast, VA 1, Long.


Fast? Really?
I mean, I don't know that much about medieval(or renaissance) martial arts, but by what I know I would thing it was slower than a sword, so basically unwieldy.
Or is my notion of a hun bringing this heavy blade into position before he can swing it full force to do major damage wrong?


I'd make it Fast because you're not swinging the thing at all. You have your right hand on the grip, your left hand about halfway up the blade, and use it in short stabbing motions like a spear. In fact, the stats I gave it were based on the spear, except it is Long instead of Longest.

[yeloson]

Hi Thor,

Is it really quick stabbing motions? I would imagine that shanking through armor might require putting a bit more body weight into it :)
I'd probably just rate it at Slow.

Chris

[Thor Olavsrud]

Hi Thor,

Is it really quick stabbing motions? I would imagine that shanking through armor might require putting a bit more body weight into it :)
I'd probably just rate it at Slow.

You're welcome to do whatever you like of course. I doubt we'll be releasing any sort of official two-handed sword. Our paradigm though has been that thrusting weapons are fast. I see it just like a Polearm Thrust, which is Fast.

[Durgil]

I too would make it Unwieldy!
I don't understand why the sword would evolve to become ever longer (to a point of course) if that made it unwieldy. I tend to believe that this is a common RPG misconception similar to the belief that heavy armour caused the wears to be little more than big ackward turtles. As the understanding of metallurgy improved, swords became longer. this provided a greater reach advantage without any significant reduction to its speed.

The technique that Thor is bringing up here is referred to as half-swording and is not the only method of thrusting a long sword. It was, however, an effective means of getting through heavy, metal armour.

[Snuggleowl]

Two-handed swords unweildy? Well, it depends on how you use it I suppose. On one hand we've got the odd "I'll swing this huge sword around back and forth until everyone is dead rargh!"-motion, which is often seen in low-budget barbarian flicks and some comics. And then there's the "Use almost like a spear and jab and poke people with it"-motion, which I frankly haven't seen in films at all. In fact, that might be the reason so many propone the swingin motion.
Well, to be fair, the reason I go with the second option is because I've seen it used once by a pal of mine. He says that's how they are used, and since I can beat me up easily, I'll go with his view. :wink:

But seriously, I'd go with using as a spear but not so long. Mostly because in my eyes, if you go into battle swingin around like a windmill, sooner or later someone's gonna take one step backwards and then waltz right into your arms with a dagger or some other Sharp Pointy Object. And that'd put a cramp on being the bloke with Big Sword pretty fast. :)

Oh, and since this is my first post and I got the game just two days ago: Great game! And hello!

[Durgil]

Two-handed swords unweildy? Well, it depends on how you use it I suppose. On one hand we've got the odd "I'll swing this huge sword around back and forth until everyone is dead rargh!"-motion, which is often seen in low-budget barbarian flicks and some comics.
I'm telling you these weapons aren't that huge. Take a look at these websites: Armoury.com (http://www.myarmoury.com/home.html) and Albion Swords (http://albion-swords.com/about.htm) and compare the weights. I can see someone getting tired faster swinging one of the bigger ones but not slower, and even the Revised Burning Wheel system doesn't have fatigue and encumbrance rules. :wink:

[Snuggleowl]

Two-handed swords unweildy? Well, it depends on how you use it I suppose. On one hand we've got the odd "I'll swing this huge sword around back and forth until everyone is dead rargh!"-motion, which is often seen in low-budget barbarian flicks and some comics.
I'm telling you these weapons aren't that huge. Take a look at these websites: Armoury.com (http://www.myarmoury.com/home.html) and Albion Swords (http://albion-swords.com/about.htm) and compare the weights. I can see someone getting tired faster swinging one of the bigger ones but not slower, and even the Revised Burning Wheel system doesn't have fatigue and encumbrance rules. :wink:

In that case, we're either talking about different swords or have different definitions of huge. In the text you quoted I was referring to (but neglected to mention alas) the zweihänder, which including hilt is longer than I am, and I am six feet tall. That's huge enough for me.
I agree on the weight, swords ar emuch lighter than we give them credit for. But the weight is of little importance, if you stand around swinging it like your chasing gnats, the time it takes you to swing the sword behind you in order to get momentum and then back again to the prospective point of impact is just too great. If you miss (and with a move like that you signal your intentions pretty well) you're setting yourself up for some misery :D
That's why I'd prefer the spear-outlook to them.

This is of course based on sparce displys of ARMA fighting and the previously mentioned guy who'd be able to kick my ass. I have no practical knowledge whatsoever, so I could just be sprouting nonsense here. Wouldn't be the first time. But as I said... spear. Unless of course, you also can beat me up :wink:

[Durgil]

In that case, we're either talking about different swords or have different definitions of huge. In the text you quoted I was referring to (but neglected to mention alas) the zweihänder, which including hilt is longer than I am, and I am six feet tall. That's huge enough for me.
I still stand by my comment that if it was all that ackward, then it wouldn't have been used.
This is of course based on sparce displys of ARMA fighting and the previously mentioned guy who'd be able to kick my ass. I have no practical knowledge whatsoever, so I could just be sprouting nonsense here. Wouldn't be the first time. But as I said... spear. Unless of course, you also can beat me up :wink:
I hope that it should never get to that, but I will warn you that I'm not your typical roleplayer size. :roll: