"A Tree Grows in Brooklyn*"?

[Durgil]

Page 89 of The Burning Wheel Character Burner, second listed skill of a Forester under the Elven Lifepaths, Wilderland Setting.

Could someone please enlighten me as to the meaning of this free skill?

[Kublai]

Ha! I've been waiting for that explanation for years now! I consider it a brain fart on Abzu's behalf... a space holder never taken out. You may consider anything you'd like.

[luke]

LOL!

::laughing too hard to respond now, will respond later::

[Durgil]

So I take it that this is an inside joke for New Yorkers? :roll:

[NiallNai]

Being from New Jersey, but a regular visitor to New York, I wouldn't say that it is a New Yorker thing. You don't see many tree growing in Brooklyn. So, I think it is basically saying that an Elvish Forester can make a tree grow just about anywhere.

But that is just my personal interpretation.

[Kublai]

Hey, that's a great interpretation, NiallNai! :D

I only know of this phrase from watching Bugs Bunny cartoons. Remember the one where bugs is a jim-dandy walking down the street of New York and he's harassed by dog thugs? He tricks them into running away by showing them the cover of the book "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn." I suppose it's some famous novel or whatever, but I've never read it or heard of it in another context.

[luke]

i can't seem to find my copy of the book so here you go:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?pwb=1&ean=9780060929886

hard for me to describe the series of non-sequitors and associations that lead that to remain in the book. suffice to say i was very tired, sick of elves, and i still to this day think it is hysterical.

did i mention i fucking hate elves? don't tell anyone i said that.

[eruditus]

Your a freak, abzu. :roll:

You can make jokes all you want but some of us are trying to game here. I think you and your editors need to get your priorities stright before polluting our gaming books with your inside jokes... sheesh

:lol:

please note the little laughing guy

[luke]

Your a freak, abzu. :roll:

Did somebody say, "EDITOR?"

The proper grammar would be "YOU ARE a freak, abzu" or contracted, "You're a freak, abzu."


EDITOR POWER!

:wink:

[Kublai]

I think you and your editors need to get your priorities stright before polluting our gaming books with your inside jokes

HA! :evil:

Here's a paraphrased conversation between Abzu and his editor:

Editor: "This is silly and inappropriate. You ought to remove it."
Abzu: "YOU are stupid and you don't know anything."
Editor: "I know enough to know that this isn't funny and it's quite distracting."
Abzu: "Who cares what you think!"

Months later...

Reviewer: "This is silly and inappropriate. It should not have been included."
Abzu: "You're absolutely right."

[luke]

Here's a paraphrased conversation between Abzu and his editor:

Editor: "This is silly and inappropriate. You ought to remove it."
Abzu: "YOU are stupid and you don't know anything."
Editor: "I know enough to know that this isn't funny and it's quite distracting."
Abzu: "Who cares what you think!"

Months later...

Reviewer: "This is silly and inappropriate. It should not have been included."
Abzu: "You're absolutely right."

BULLSHIT!

The only guy who i agreed with on changes was Ralph Mazza. He wasn't even a reviewer. And I can't even remember what I agreed with, but it certainly was not my precious lifepath traits. I think it was training skills. A dare you to find those posts and prove me wrong!

Here's another conversation:

Editor: "You should take out anything that gives the game character or makes it unique or interesting to read. It should be like an algebra text book."

abzu: "Nah, I think I'll keep it like this. Dick."

[Kublai]

Tee hee! :twisted:

[eruditus]

reminder of little laughing guy :arrow: :lol:

lets play nice kiddies :wink:

[Kublai]

Oops, I forgot my smiley face! :oops:

Damn! I still get the test, though, right? My Netiquette is almost to B5! Oh wait... I don't need any more Routines. :(

[eruditus]

I am of two minds about this. And being someone in the process of development of my own game I think its important to discuss. Anyone know if there is a topic about this on The Forge?

Does this sort of stuff take away from the experience? Do developer comments and opinions stay invisible and the rules stay "objective" or is there a place for anecdotes and injokes. I mean we all love reading HOL by White Wolf. Yet we want a playable game? How clean does it have to be before the material begins to suffer?

I realize this is really subjective and someone should probably move the topic ('cause I am a lazy bastard) but I think its important to talk about aside from abzu and kublai sniping one another across the forum :)

[Kublai]

I never figured out how to move posts, or else I'd start a new thread for this. Hopefully, Abzu will take care of this for us!

As for your topic, Eruditus, I'd like to say I am in strong favor of keeping the designer from making any direct comments to his reader. I feel such comments are distracting and annoying. The same goes for obvious jokes and references. When I am reading a rulebook, I am immersing myself in that world. Such instances break my "vibe" and I find that intolerable. I prefer more subtle designer influence, like in his examples or the jargon he chooses to use.

I don't think rules should be written in the first person... ever. Save that nonsense for the back of the book, or in these days, the Web site.

Did I ever tell you how I am the reincarnation of a 1000-year-old Dwarven Forge Master? :wink:

[Blackberry]

I agree that the out-of-tone references are jarring and detract from verisimilitude, but Burning Wheel is so great that I'm willing to overlook it and go with the spirit of it. :)

[Thor]

As for your topic, Eruditus, I'd like to say I am in strong favor of keeping the designer from making any direct comments to his reader. I feel such comments are distracting and annoying. The same goes for obvious jokes and references. When I am reading a rulebook, I am immersing myself in that world. Such instances break my "vibe" and I find that intolerable. I prefer more subtle designer influence, like in his examples or the jargon he chooses to use.

I don't think rules should be written in the first person... ever. Save that nonsense for the back of the book, or in these days, the Web site

I disagree, if it's handled correctly. I think it works well so long as it's a designer sharing a joke with the reader, rather than putting down something that is intended to go over the reader's head. Getting the reader to smile or laugh is good. Getting the reader to scratch his head in confusion is bad.

For instance, when you read in the Sword skill that the tools required are a "whacka," I think that's great. Even though Luke has provided us with some pretty hardcore, serious rules, he remembers that what the game is really all about is having fun. It's okay to be a bit silly, even if the game is serious.

[JKahrs]

Not to post a me-too post, but I think that the asides and quirky trait names help establish the tone of the game. Burning Wheel is all about, IMO, challenging experienced role-players conceptions about gaming and role-playing. It is simultaneously about getting back to the roots of the hobby and exploring new ways of looking at things. That being the case I think the tone is nigh perfect. AS for me, I understood what "ATGiB" meant to me as soon as I looked at it. Who cares what it means to any one else. So long as the player can communicate how they interpret their lifepath traits, I don't think we need a strict set of rules for them.

</preach>

[Kublai]

Gold star for JKahrs! :D

[eruditus]

Not to post a me-too post, but I think that the asides and quirky trait names help establish the tone of the game. Burning Wheel is all about, IMO, challenging experienced role-players conceptions about gaming and role-playing. It is simultaneously about getting back to the roots of the hobby and exploring new ways of looking at things. That being the case I think the tone is nigh perfect. AS for me, I understood what "ATGiB" meant to me as soon as I looked at it. Who cares what it means to any one else. So long as the player can communicate how they interpret their lifepath traits, I don't think we need a strict set of rules for them.

</preach>

You would, ya hippie!

(just a little joke)

[JKahrs]

You would, ya hippie!


Woot, I think that is the first time I have been called a hippie. :D