Niggling Quetion about Born Lifepaths

[eruditus]

having established that Born... are lifepaths I was concerned about a few detail issues.

Did i miss something or, according to the rules (and note to some players rules do not mean common sense) can you do multiple Born lifepaths? So could you do Born Noble, Born Noble, Born City Dweller, Born City Dweller?

Again, the operant question really is "did I miss something?"

[Kublai]

:lol:

You're funny, eruditus!

[nebulousmenace]

Now I've got "Born Dead" in my head. (Born black. . . Born yellow. . . Born red. . . BORN DEAD!)

So, you gonna do a "Born Dead" lifepath?

[eruditus]

I suppose this means no one will answer my rhetorical question... especially not with "Yes, its on page such and such it says you can't get multiple 'born' lifepaths?"

[luke]

what exactly is unclear about P 16 of the CB?

[Kublai]

I suppose this means no one will answer my rhetorical question... especially not with "Yes, its on page such and such it says you can't get multiple 'born' lifepaths?"

I didn't answer it with a page number because I didn't know (I never keep my book at work!:)). Anyway, the answer is so blindingly obvious that a rule shouldn't be necessary.

How can you possibly be born more than once? Unless you know of a way to crawl back into a woman's uterus and keep popping out, it's impossible - "INCONCEIVABLE!" to quote a famous Sicilian! :D

Personally, I can't believe you asked this question, so I laughed it off like it was a joke to save you embarassment and a label as a power-gaming munchkin. :oops: I still suspect this was a joke, however, and so I hesitate you judge you thusly! ;) Especially since you seemed so well-balanced when we met.

[NiallNai]

And another thing to think about, most Born lifepaths add a significant number of years to your life for little bonus. You don't get many traits or stat points, and the skill points are low as well as the limited selection of skills.

The number of years added for taking more than one Born path could have an old Man with little skills.

[Kublai]

The only power-gaming reason to desire multiple Births is that all the Skill points are General points. Thus, you could take whatever skills you wanted. There is no other reason I could possibly imagine. :evil:

[eruditus]

Okay, first, page 16 makes no such restriction that I saw. It discusses the conceptual piece of Born lifepaths but never says "a character can only have one born lifepath."

Yes, this seems like a silly question but the fact is that I do not believe RPGs can be written just for "good gamers." We are in the minority. For every one of us - people driven by story, maybe "common sense," and a penchant for even-handed fairness - there are hundreds, even thousands, of people who fall into three categories:

1) rpgs are a game and a game is to be won. Its about the numbers. D&D sprung from this mentality. It wasn't GG's undying passion to BE an elf, it was because they wanted skirmish rules for their fantasy wargaming and decided "hey, it would be cool if I could play just THIS guy." Its not about the characters. Its not about the world. Its about the numbers.

2) there are the sorts of people for whom try to break games. Its easy for us to say "well, that's just silly, the answer is obvious." However, any game is weakened by the GM having to make "house rules." (more on this later) Its better that the GM has a solid rule to spin off from. Especially since "Born...Lifepath" has its own little section.

3) there are people that try to get every advantage and it requires a strong GM or a solid set of rules with which to navigate properly. For these people its all about getting something out of the system that it was not designed to accomplish yet is possible when thinking out-of-the-box. "Well, I want to play and elf beginning in a human setting. Obviously I need more maturing than a normal human so maybe I would get multiple born lifepaths during my growing up phase. So, I take two Born noble Lifepaths and my foster family fell on hard times so we had to move to the city where I take a City Dweller LP to round off my average elf maturity. Oh, and I start with 14 general skill points before taking my last LP in your 4 LP game.") Again, its better to say "page 16" than - "well, in my world, you can only take one LP. why?

As these players are a reality to our hobby and in my opinion should not be shunned just because they do not approach the spirit of the game the same way I do, they need to be handled with the same courtesy you would give others unless they are trying to deliberately be disruptive (tough to assertain sometimes). A strong GM could shoot down such ideas but should figure out how to do so without alienating or singling out the player. Often there is one player in the group that you feel you are saying "no" to their requests. It weakens the GMs "power" everytime you make an "arbitrary decision" against such players because eventually you get "you always say no to my requests or ideas, its apparent you don't want me in your game." Some may disagree but we can't really afford to say "good riddance." The GM that can fight these types at their own game, or better yet the system that does not open up opportunities such as this to begin with, creates an optimum situation that can be controlled only by the developer.

And lets face it, there are also alot of groups out there that have far more power than their GM. Some GMs do not have the spine nor the personality to tell their players no. Thus the rules must act as an arbitrator for furthering the type of gaming and thinking we hope to espouse.

So when I ask questions like this it is because I find holes (or holes are presented to me by these players ;) ) and I seek to help make BW not only the game I want to run, but a game that other GMs want to run as well.

[Kublai]

It's all my fault, I suppose! Luke originally had that rule written in and I mocked him. He took it out because I argued that taking Born more than once is illogical and so inconceivable that no one could possibly try it. But, I've been proved wrong. And thus, I am to blame.

I AM SOOO SORRY, LUKE!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[luke]

It's all my fault, I suppose! Luke originally had that rule written in and I mocked him. He took it out because I argued that taking Born more than once is illogical and so inconceivable that no one could possibly try it. But, I've been proved wrong. And thus, I am to blame.

I AM SOOO SORRY, LUKE!! :cry: :cry: :cry:


huh? ::looks up from writing desk::
"Oh this, Mr GM? I was just making a character for your campaign."
"What is he? Well, he's a 4 LPer, like you asked."
"What are his LPs? Why Born Orc, Born Elf, Born Dwarf, Born Human."
"Come on! I have a really good story behind him. The rules say that stories should supersede the rules!"

"Ok, how about Born Peasant, Born Noble, Son of a Gun and Born Slave?"
"Why not!? He's a great character! He was spewed from a peasant wench's womb and grew up on the farm. When he was 8, he saw a passing noble lady's carriage. He was sad she didn't have a child, so he jumped into her womb and stayed there for 9 months. After 9 months he was born again and then he lived with his new Noble parents for 12 years. His noble dad was appointed admiral of the king's fleet. During a pirate raid, all the crews were killed. In order to hide he jumped inside a serving girl's womb and hid out for 9 months. After 9 months he was born again again, after 8 happy years he got his Sea Legs. But the pirate's were attacked by the saracens! Oh no! So quick, jump into that pirate girl! Oh no! She's taken prisoner! Oh no, I don't want to come out of the womb this time! Oh no! I'm born Slave! Ack, -1 P! See, this really is a good story."

"He's 40 yrs old, and only has 13 General points to start. His noble dad was a really famous swordsman and trained him in the Sword. He's got a G5 Sword. Plus a B2 Herbalism, B2 Martial Arts and a B2 Stealthy."

"What!?! Why can't I play him?! He's a great character! The rules say story should supersede the rules! I've got a great story and a great character and now you are just screwing me! Agh! You're screwing me!"

[eruditus]

You jest but they are out there :lol: