Crazy Talk

[Viper]

Well, with the release of dark elves, we've seen that it's possible to go from grief -> spite -> hatred, assuming you take the proper lifepaths and traits.

Would it be totally out there to have an orc lifepath that would allow an orc to actually feel remorse? For something to awaken deep inside, actual empathy with another living thing, throwing his entire existence into sharp relief? Could he put his hatred aside and actually feel grief for all the pain he has caused?

What would you call this lifepath? Is it a cool idea? A terrible one? Discuss.

[luke]

::has flights of murderous fancy::
::Summons Fury::


I dunno. I always imagined the tragedy of Orcs is that they were irredeemable. I worry that allowing them to grieve would inadvertently create comedy.

-L

[Kublai]

In a non-Tolkien world though, where orcs conceivably live along with other races, giving them the ability to be non-Hateful is a possibility. It wouldn't break the game to allow this, only one concept of them.

[24 Oceans]

Yeah, I'd be wary of Hate->Grief myself. If one were going away from 'Tolkien' and more in the direction of say 'Warcraft' you could prolly do something to the effect of Hate->Honor (via some form of redemption), but again that'd prolly be very setting specific.

That said, I second the vote that themes like 'Hate and Revenge lead to Tragedy' are really cool.

[Viper]

I wasn't really suggesting it as something that should be incorporated into the setting canon, but i thought it might be an interesting idea to explore in a character, or a campaign.

[Kublai]

I totally think it would be dandy for a character to explore this option in a game, even if to find out that no matter what he did, he would end up Hating.

[Paka]

I think the Orc who can break the cycle would be a lone example, possibly the subject of an entire campaign.

It'd be a neat story.

And when it was time for them to go west, would the elves in paradise welcome their bastard cousin whose very spit is poison?

[ChrisG]

I know almost nothing about how Grief and Hatred work, having just started to understand the rules, but for some reason while reading this thread, I couldn't help thinking about Gollum. He's a character that certainly had plenty of spite and hate in his life (not sure if he had Spite and Hatred), but through Frodo's kindness, managed to manifest two aspects of his personality: the more human (err, Hobbit) Smeagol, and the hateful Gollum.

Is there some way to have emotional attributes that are at war with each other? There's something satisfying about a creature whose tragedy is that he can glimpse something beyond Hatred, but he'll never get that monkey off his back.

[The_Tim]

Perhaps Orcs can't find redemption but can transform the Hatred into other emotions. Maybe Fear of the reckoning manifesting as a desperate attempt to do good and be at least over looked when the world ends. Maybe Pride at standing in defiance of those that damn them, refusing to accept their doom but also refusing to play a game they cannot win.