Also, Rome

[luke]

So, uh, which of my loving, adoring fans is taping ROME for their favorite game designer so he can watch it and start scratching notes for Burning Rome?

You think when John Wick's done with the tapes, I could see 'em?


Seriously, anyone taping ROME? Anyone want to contribute to a possible future supplement for Burning Wheel? Anyone want to help me overcome The Wire withdrawal?

-L

[Yagathai]

Oh Luke. As much as we love John's Wicky-wackiness, you know that there's no way he can eclipse you in our hearts.

Now where's the kissy-emoticon when you need it?

[Drozdal]

All You have to do is ASK....

[Judd]

Rob is taping Rome for me. You can get it when I'm done but I generally do HBO shows so that they fill an entire 6 hour tape and then get 'em.

It is going to be a while is what I'm saying.

But if you still need it when I'm done in two months or so, they're yours to borrow.

[luke]

Rob is taping Rome for me. You can get it when I'm done but I generally do HBO shows so that they fill an entire 6 hour tape and then get 'em.

It is going to be a while is what I'm saying.

But if you still need it when I'm done in two months or so, they're yours to borrow.

almost done with the Wire tapes...

-L

[Judd]

almost done with the Wire tapes...

-L

As Omar would say:

"Indeed."[/i]

[ChrisG]

Luke, if it speeds Burning Rome into the world, I'll burn episode one onto DVD and send it to you (I've got it on my lappy 486). I spent the entire time thinking "DoW, Circles test, Resources test, Stealth, Bloody Versus test..."

[luke]

Luke, if it speeds Burning Rome into the world, I'll burn episode one onto DVD and send it to you (I've got it on my lappy 486). I spent the entire time thinking "DoW, Circles test, Resources test, Stealth, Bloody Versus test..."

hot! or rather "unsold!" (be not offended, unsold est novus hot)

i might take you up on your offer. we'll see what the NYC crew can come up with.

-L

[AndyAction]

Yah, Rome rocked my pants as well.

I didn't see last night's episode - did the DoW in the Senate turn into a Fight!
oh, the Glory...

I humbly prostrate myself at the feet of Nero as far as gaining a seat at the Burning Rome table, Lukifer...

[stormsweeper]

Just caught up on this last night (the first four episodes). It's quite good, although it had a bumpy start. Thor pointed out in our last game that Anastasia (my character) was very similar to Atia (http://www.hbo.com/rome/cast/character/atia.html).

[Soloswolf]

Hi Luke,

I know little of the show, but I'd be willing to help Burn Rome. I would be particularly interested in an army-scale Fight! mechanic. My BW-Fu is moderate at best, but I'd love to help.

-Aaron from NH (Currently under the patronage of The Realm of Ithaca)

[Robert Bohl]

Just caught up on this last night (the first four episodes). It's quite good, although it had a bumpy start. Thor pointed out in our last game that Anastasia (my character) was very similar to Atia (http://www.hbo.com/rome/cast/character/atia.html).
My love for Atia is unholy and vast.

[stormsweeper]

Imagine Atia with Bene Gesserit training.

[Omar]

Rome and the Wire both rock. I call myself Omar because of Omar Little, even though I'm straight and I don't own a shotgun :P Anyone see the episdoe in season 2 when Omar was in court testifying against Bird? Pure comedy gold!

On the Rome side, Titus Pullo rules.

"Titus Pullo is sleeping on the steps again."

"Pullo, why aren't you in camp?"
"There's nothing to do it's boring."

:lol:

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi,

ROME finally hit our shores here on Wed evening. The pilot was excellent.

I was nearly whooping with joy when I saw John Milius name there in the credits, it brings me back to the Conan the Barbarian days. That opening scene with the music by Basil Poleduris as they're coming through the snow to attack Conan's village. Still blows me away played at full volume on surround when the girlfriend is out! ;-)

Back to Rome. I think this would be a spectacular setting. I've downloaded Sands and Serpents, but haven't read them yet. Are there additional rules from Sands and Sun with BW suitable for playing in the higher echelons of Roman society - as in playing families against each other.

I spotted in the XMAS BLOG that Abzu forwarded Rome Imperious. Has anyone had a look at that for some possibility?

I'm going to dig out my AH Republic of Rome and go back through that for information and the like on families and genealogies.

Would like to get involved with helping with this Burning Rome if it's a goer. My current campaign that I'm running for my players is coming to a close. I might see collectively if we want to explore Burning Rome or something like that?

I can now see what you've all been raving about. 10 more episodes to go! And I believe the go ahead for Series 2 has been given and potentially a series 3!!!

It really does show that if we can think of anything decadent and think it's original - just go back to the Classical World, it's all been done before! :-)

Raegenhere.

PS: Don't you just love it when Mark Anthony says to the centurion to link up with the torture unit if he needs any information extracted from the locals on getting the eagle back! And sure enough out come the crosses, nails, ropes and mallets :twisted:

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi All,

Watching episode 3 of Rome last night. Great scene with Chief Auger, Anthony and Ceasar talking about what the Auger's wife likes as a present and how cash would be much better as she's a lady of some taste. Looked like a DoW - on the one side the Auger (who at first appeared dis-interested, feigned not knowing what was really being discussed) trying to get it as high as possible and on the other side Ceasar going for it but keeping it as low as possible and Anthony throwing in the casual menacing remark about how people can die from "oysters". In the end a deal was done, and Ceasar leaned over to his scribe and said make a note of it in our records (Resource / Tax test I presume as the scribe was telling him there was almost nothing left)!

Anyway, from reading my books, watching the programme and AH Replublic of Rome, I thought I'd start the ball rolling.

So, I'm putting down the skeleton of a Setting - could be called GOVERNMENT or more appropriate SENATE SETTING. For all those Roman and Classical Scholars out there, it is anachronistic and I've taken some liberty so be kind! :lol:

Well here, goes:

CVRSVS HONORUM (the ladder of position or power or offices)

(1) EMPEROR
* Assuming no minimum age
* Position for life
* Maximum number of positions: 1
* When held, position of DICTATOR, MASTER OF HORSE and REX not available
* Only available if there is a change in Roman Government type from REPUBLIC to EMPIRE
* Power position in Rome = 1


(2) CONSUL FOR LIFE [REX]
* Minimum age 43
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Elected by Senate
* Maximum number of positions: 1
* When held, position of DICTATOR and MASTER OF HORSE not available
* Position for life
* Power position in Rome = 1


(3) DICTATOR
* Only available if a STATE OF EMERGENCY exists
* Minimum age 43
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Elected by SENATE, approved by the people
* Maximum number of positions: 1
* Position for 6 months
* Power position in Rome = 1


(4) MASTER OF HORSE
* Only available if a STATE OF EMERGENCY exists
* Second in Command to DICTATOR
* Appointed by the DICTATOR
* Minimum age 43
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Maximum number of positions: 1
* Position for 6 months
* Power position in Rome = 2


(5) CENSOR
* Must be from the PATRICIAN class
* Elected by the SENATE
* Minimum age 43
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Maximum number of positions: 2
* Position for 18 months
* Power position in Rome = 1
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Elected the Princeps Senatus
* Kept the Senate Roster updated
* Controlled public morals and could expel Senators for violation of same
* Supervised the water supply
* Took censuses of property
* Kept a register of all citizens and assigned them to centuries for voting
* Supervised leasing of public land
* Decided on new construction
* Awarded State contracts


(6) PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR
* Elected by the SENATE
* Minimum age 44 (Imperial Province) / 54 (Senatorial Province -> Africa, Asia): going on assumption that Senatorial more powerful and wealthy positions
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Maximum number of positions: {EDITED 18/11/05} 50+
* Position for {EDITED 18/11/05} 12 - 60 months, Roll D6
* Power position in Rome = n/a (away from ROME)
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits): Govern province, improve province, collect taxation, improve trade, maintain peace, administer justice and law,
quell unrest and rebellion
* If uses province for personal gain, add trait CORRUPT, this leaves him open to prosecution from the CENSOR on return. If CORRUPT, multiply the resources availble
by 3
{EDITED 18/11/05}
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Taxation and financial management
* Supervise local authorities, private tax collectors, levy taxes
* Mint coins, negotiate with wealthy institutions (temples, private money-lenders that could advance money)
* Chief accountant for the province (inspected the books of major cities and operations)
* Supervise large-scale building projects
* Province Chief Judge (sole right to impose capital punishment - could be appealed to Rome)
* Commanded the military forces in the province (more important provinces this would be legions, but elsewhere milita, auxillaries)
* Standing orders to wipe out crime and rebels without the need for Senate approval


(7) PRO-CONSUL (PROVINCIAL APPOINTMENT DIRECTLY AFTER CONSULSHIP - CONTINUITY)
* Minimum age 43
* Must have been a CONSUL
* Maximum number of positions: 2
* Position for 12 months
* Power position in Rome = n/a (away from ROME)
* This can only be taken directly after a CONSUL position
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits): Govern province, improve province, collect taxation, improve trade, maintain peace, administer justice and law,
quell unrest and rebellion
* If uses province for personal gain, add trait CORRUPT, this leaves him open to prosecution from the CENSOR on return. If CORRUPT, multiply the resources availble
by 3


(8 ) CONSUL
* Minimum age 42
* Maximum number of positions: 2
* Position for 12 months
* Power position in Rome = 2
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Responsible for enforcing order in Rome
* Presided over the Senate and the Assemblies of the People
* All other officials--except the Tribunes of the People--answered to them
* Implemented Senate decisions
* Introduced legislation before the people
* Performed various religious functions.
* Nominated a Dictator when necessary
* Outside of Rome served as Commanders-in-Chief in case of war
* Once out of office, considered lifetime member of the Senate
* Represented Rome in foreign affairs


(9) PONTIFEX MAXIMUS
* Does not wear a purple toga of power - however identifiable by iron knife (secespita)
* Minimum age 41
* Maximum number of positions: 1
* Position for life
* Power position in Rome = 7
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* pax deorum, the 'peace with the gods'
* Chairman of the Priests (Pontifices)
* Advice to SENATE
* Omens (annales maximi)
* Controlled calendar
* Oversaw funerals
* Record celestial and other events for posterity and demonstation of divine will
* Management of 18 priestesses of Vesta (it's a hard job but somebody has got to do it!) :-) It's good to be the Ponty!
* Appoint Priests


(10) PRO-PRAETOR (PROVINCIAL APPOINTMENT)
* Minimum age 40
* Must have been a PRAETOR
* Maximum number of positions: 8
* Position for 60 months
* Not to a Senatorial Province (ie Africa or Asia)
* Power position in Rome = n/a (away from ROME)
* This can only be taken directly after a PRAETOR position
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits): Govern province, improve province, collect taxation, improve trade, maintain peace, administer justice and law,
quell unrest and rebellion
* If uses province for personal gain, add trait CORRUPT, this leaves him open to prosecution from the CENSOR on return. If CORRUPT, multiply the resources availble
by 3


(11) SENATOR
* Debate, enact legislation and policy
* Management of the State
* Minimum age 40
* Must have been at least a QUAESTOR
* Maximum number of positions: 600
* Power position in Rome = 4
* Position for life (unless removed)
* Broken in political parties and allegiances
* chief governmental body because it controlled public finances and foreign affairs, assigned military commands and provinces, and debated and passed
decrees that would be submitted to the assemblies for final ratification


(12) PRAETOR
* Minimum age 39
* Maximum number of positions: 8
* Power position in Rome = 5
* Position for 12 months
* 2 types (1 dealing with disputes between foreigners, the other dealing with civil / criminal law)
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Served as the supreme civil judges for legal cases
* Issued annual edicts re Roman Law


(13) AEDILE
* Minimum age 37
* Maximum number of positions: 4
* At least 2 must come from the PLEBIAN class
* Power position in Rome = 6
* Position for 12 months
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* In charge of maintaining public buildings, aqueducts, and roads
* Managed the grain supply
* Handled inspection of weights and measures
* Supervised the games


(14) TRIBUNE OF THE PEOPLE
* Minimum age 37
* Maximum number of positions: 10
* Position for 12 months
* Must be from the PLEBIAN class
* Power position in Rome = 3
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Safeguarded the interests of the People
* Could veto the action of any elected official
* could punish--even with death--a disobedient official.
* Immune from arrest or punishment themselves
* Responsible directly to the Concilium Plebis


(15) QUAESTOR
* Minimum age 30
* Maximum number of positions: 40
* Position for 12 months
* Power position in Rome = 8
* Must have been a MILITARY TRIBUNE
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Handled receipt and disbursement of state money
* Maintained public records
* Oversaw state contract details
* Acted as quartermasters and paymasters for generals in the field
* Acted as financial secretaries to provincial governors
* Eligibility for SENATE if appointed by CENSOR to fill a vacancy (DoF to get appointed?)


(16)PONTIFICE (PRIEST)
* Power position in Rome = 12
* Minimum age 30
* Maximum number of positions: 18
* Position for life unless removed by the PONTIFEX MAXIMUS
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Omens
* Roman State Cult and other Cults


(17)PREFECT -> "the one who stands in front of"
* Power position in Rome = 10
* Nominated by CONSUL, approved by the SENATE
* Minimum age 25
* Position for 12 months
* Maximum number of positions: not fixed
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Varied as needed
* Food distribution to the people of Rome
* Pensions of the Legionaires
* Guard State Treasury
* Mayor of Rome
* Financial support of orphans
* 7 cohorts of Rome firemen
* Public roads


(18)BOARD OF TWENTY SIX "Vigintivirate"
* Minimum age 20
* Power position in Rome = 11
* Maximum number of positions: 26
* Position for 12 months
* Responsibilities (turn in skills / traits):
* Police commission of 3 to oversee arrest, trial, and punishment of criminals
* Commission of 10 for the judgment of certain legal cases
* Commission of 4 in charge of the courts of Capua, Cumae, and other towns
* Commission of 3 in charge of the mint
* Commission of 4 for inside city street cleaning
* Commission of 2 for outside city street cleaning


Minimum Requirements for all life paths:
1. Must be a freeborn male citizen
2. Minimal interval between holding the same position again is 2 years
3. Pontifex Maximus and Pontifice positions can be held with other positions
4. Vigintivirate would be the first position to be looked for, then would be 2 - 3 years service as a military tribune in a legion


Things to check out:
1. Number of tribes and classes -> voting tribes, plebs, noble, equestrian
2. Linkage back into these lifepaths from Military and vice-versa (military tribune, military posts, etc). MILITARY TRIBUNE needs to be on a military lifepath.
3. Cost of maintaining a legion
4. Estimate of net worth of medieval King (current BW) to Roman Emperor - so can factor resource from BW
5. Was there a minimum age for the Emperor
6. Was the Emperor elected?
7. What are centuries for voting? Thinking of using resources to buy best century, best tribe, best class etc
8. Entry into the classes (have to work out how to figure that out) Equestrian 400,000 sesterces, Senatorial 1,000,000 sesterces
9. Examine AH Republic of Rome for info on provinces and possible resource / income
10. Political parties and allegiances - Populists, Reformists, etc.

Just initial thoughts ...

Raegenhere

{EDITED 18/11/05 - Roman Provinces From Wikpedia}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_province

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi Abzu,

I've done up the Cvrsvs Honorvm in .pdf. I've called it Draft 1 marked with today's date. Where possible, I've re-used what is in the Burning Wheel.
{Just realised as I'm typing, that I should have added a point at the bottom of the notes, that for any of the positions, you had to be: (a) freeborn, (b) a citizen and (c) male.}

Would it be possible to get this put up for people to review? (bit cheeky, but I've already emailed it to you account)

Bear in mind, I haven't read Jihad, or Serpent Sun, so there might be some great material in there that could be inserted into a Rome setting.

I'd really like to throw this out to the wider audiences to rip apart, make recommendations, add to and all the rest.

I might be wrong, but I would also see the following settings (re-using what's in Burning Wheel):

* Patrician Setting (needed to build up the resources to become a Senator)
* Plebian Setting
* Equestrian Setting
* Unfree Setting
* Military Setting

See what you think ...

Raegenhere.

[Drozdal]

Hey Raegenhere

Why not use a Writeboard (http://www.writeboard.com/) to post your draft? It's free and people might comment on it right there.

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi Drozdal,

Going to check that out. Will it allow me to upload the PDF so people can download it? If it's just html, then the formatting will probably go all shot?

Thanks.

Raegenhere.

[Drozdal]

Will it allow me to upload the PDF so people can download it? If it's just html, then the formatting will probably go all shot?It won't allow you to uppload your PDF, but give it a try - copy/paste text (and format it if you like), but Writeboard is more about bunch of people working on a one project (editing/revising and adding comments) at the same place (instead of trading ideas over e-mail or whatever), than place to uppload files for free.

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi All,

As per suggestion from Drozdal, I have tried to copy the html directly over to WhiteBoard.

The URL is: http://123.writeboard.com/9aaa2ff6b490c06b5

It is called "Cursus Honorum".

It didn't quite recognise all the tags, but it still looks fine (if a little long).

See what you think?

Thanks.

Raegenhere.

[Drozdal]

Could You share password with us?

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi Drozdal,

Sorry about that.

The password for this is Eadbald.

Raegenhere.

[luke]

i hate case sensitive passwords.

anyway, the stuff looks cool, man.

It seems like you have lifepaths that contain lifepath traits but have no requirement. To me, that's a big no-no in BW. The lifepath trait is the price you pay for the path.

-L

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Hi Abzu,

Thanks for that positive feedback.

Bear with me, I didn't quite understand your comment? I put notes at the bottom that listed requirements for each of the lifepaths within the setting.

Is that what your talking about, or am I missing something more fundamental in the design?

What people might have noticed is that for Senator upwards, I've given a good opportunity for graft. This will make massive amounts of resources. However, it will leave the person open to prosecution and proscription by the Censor. The Censor is your man if you want to go after someone, of course, there's a lot of bribing for voting and all that in the background.

With the paths below Senator, there's resources to be made, but not a lot, you'd have to do multiple years (kind of like a dog's body) to build up enough resources to make it as a senator. The thing to remember is that this positions were a privilege, the person was not paid or salaried, they had to take care of themselves.

I've set the minimum resource requirements for a Senator at 110 to represent the 1m sesterces needed. Of course, for the Patrician Class (a setting to be done with Birth Lifepath), by the time they're 18, they should be close to this or have it!).

Of note, I came across where a legion for a full year in the field was about 2.6m sesterces (but they really rarely campaigned for that long). So if we estimate at 1.3 million, that's about 133 resources need to be able to call on a legion to invade (protect) Rome at your back. As you can see, this option is only really available for those guys who have made it to Consul and higher and by being a Governor (and especially corrupt), it will be easier, but of course, the Senate is there to try and check you.

I might be modelling things very clunkily, so I'll bow to the greater knowledge and experience out there to mould something really useful.

Thoughts ...

Raegenhere.

[Raegenhere (Huscarl)]

Folks,

Here's the pdf if you want it, I've put it up onto 'savefile' which is for free hosting up to 50MB.

http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=9841179

Raegenhere