[Planescape] Stocks & Lifepaths

[Koh-I-Noor]

Ahem... yeah, I'm new to the game, and there are a lot of races and lifepaths I'll need to cover to tailor BW for running Planescape. (Probably a bit of magic, too). I don't actually have lifepaths and settings for any of the stocks yet, but I wanted to list the a few of the stocks here, and just mark this thread for my (or anyone else's) future use.


Aasimar*
Dwarves**
Elves**
Bariaur
Githzerai
Man**
Modron
Other (You know: Gnomes, Halflings, stuff like that.)
Planetouched*
Tiefling*
* These races are nearly identical to Man, so they may use a nearly identical lifepath.
** These races' lifepaths will likely need some adjustment from BW canon.

Yeah, I know Planescape's AD&D, and I'm not going to try and force BW to be like AD&D -- otherwise, I'd just play AD&D. Planescape's an awesome setting, though, and I think it deserves the BW treatment.

[Koh-I-Noor]

An interesting note about modrons is that there are only 15 castes, and every modron in each caste is exactly like every other modron in that caste. Each caste has its own unique body shape, and as castes get higher in rank, the modrons in that caste gain more abilities, statistics and intelligence. There are also a set number of modrons in each caste, which never changes. If a modron dies, a modron from the rank directly below him will be "promoted" to take his place, and THAT modron will be replaced by a modron from the caste directly below him, until you get to the lowest caste. Modrons in the lowest cast divide in two to replace losses to that caste.

This rigid caste system means that normal modrons will have only one Setting, with exactly fifteen lifepaths. Note, however, that modrons can go rogue and gain individuality (the only possible way to have one as a player character). Rogue modrons are considered "dead" to modron society, so they are replaced with a new modron of the appropriate station. So I may make a Rogue Modron setting and lifepaths, and perhaps a few others as well.

In any case, the number of lifepaths allowed for a campaign will partially determine which caste the modron character was currently in when he "went rogue" to go on adventures.

The main modron Setting and lifepaths will be as follows; I am including the exact number of modrons which always exist in a given caste in parentheses beside each lifepath. Note that each lifepath MUST be taken in order, from lowest caste to the highest. The requirement for each lifepath (aside from the lowest) will be the lifepath which precedes it. These lifepaths are listed here in order from lowest caste to highest.

Regulus Setting
Born Regulus: Monodrone (300 million)
Duodrone (55 million)
Tridrone (6 million)
Quadrone (1.5 million)
Pentadrone (500,000)
Decaton (100)
Nonaton (81)
Octon (64)
Septon (49)
Hexton (36)
Quinton (25)
Quarton (16)
Tertian (9)
Secundus (4)
Primus, the One and the Prime (1, Unique)


Notice that in the case of "Heirarch" modrons, the number which exist in each caste is the square of the number their name represents. Also, any modron with a caste of Quarton or higher cannot go rogue (i.e., the limit for player character modrons stops at Quinton, which believe me, is powerful indeed).

[Judd]

Are Modorons a play-able PC race in Planescape's D&D?

I mean, when you buy the boxed set, could you play a Modron?

What would a PC Modron do?

Aren't they more about the machinery of the spheres?

I dunno, I'm not getting it.

And I LOVED Planescape.

[Judd]

I say:

Forget all of those paths.

Make up some traits and use the paths in the book. I don't think you need a Githyanki lifepath. They are knights with beliefs having to do with hating githzarai and mind flayers and troubled devotion to their liche queen.

I'd make the setting have Beliefs and Instincts.

Beliefs:

My philosophy can change the multiverse.

The Lady of Pain is frightening.

The planes are meant to be traversed and adventured in.

Instincts:

When talking to a naive primer, always lie.

When talking to a berk cutter, never trust 'em.

When in a Duel of Wits about Philosophy, always bring it into another conflict after the duel's over.

[Koh-I-Noor]

Normally I would agree with you, but I really think modrons -- for example -- need a special lifepath set. The Githzerai (the Githzerai are the "good" ones, the Githyanki are the "bad" ones) are not knights or priests like normal men; they're warrior monks, hailing from Limbo, and part of their culture lies in controlling and shaping that chaos into something orderly. Bariaur are planar nomads, and have a distinct culture different from the culture of men (they're basically sheep centaurs, after all). The Aasimar, Tieflings and Planetouched are close enough to men to be almost identical, but some special traits will be needed to represent their extra abilities and special niche.

While I agree with you concerning the importance of Beliefs, I also believe having a different set of lifepaths makes characters of very different stocks feel unique. If everyone just borrows from existing stocks, it'll feel (to me) like you're just playing a man dressed in Githzerai clothing. They live their whole lives differently than men, and I want that to be represented.

[Judd]

Have you ever heard of a PC Modron in the Planescape books? I just think they're color, background. I just don't see them as needing a LP of their own.

Whatever, gods bless.

[Koh-I-Noor]

Either way, there are fifteen different types of modrons. I can either burn up fifteen monsters, or treat them as a character stock and create lifepaths. I think the lifepaths would best represent modrons, because a singular lifepath is exactly what modrons are. There are only fifteen kinds. (Except in the case of rogues).

As for using modrons as player characters, it's suggested in some of the Planescape settings and the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I. So the use of modrons as player characters (rogues only) is canon for Planescape. Also, Nordom was a modron player character in Planescape: Torment. So there is a precedent.

[ChrisG]

My knowledge of Planescape is primarily through Torment, so take this for what it's worth, but Dakkon (the Gith PC) seems like a character that could be represented quite well by a Priest or Knight. He's got a strict code of honor, he's quite spiritual, has a special relationship with his weapon, and you could use Faith to achieve his magical effects. Other than that, he's all traits (Gith, Skeletal Appearance, Devotee of Zerthimon, etc).

About Modron PCs: if you can't play a Modron that hasn't gone rogue, and once he's gone rogue he can't take any more Modron LPs, then the only purpose of a Modron LP is to distinguish between Modrons who went rogue at different points in their lives.

So what's the difference between a Modron who went rogue as a Hexton from one who went rogue as a Septon? If it's just their appearance, that could easily be a trait.

[Koh-I-Noor]

My knowledge of Planescape is primarily through Torment, so take this for what it's worth, but Dakkon (the Gith PC) seems like a character that could be represented quite well by a Priest or Knight. He's got a strict code of honor, he's quite spiritual, has a special relationship with his weapon, and you could use Faith to achieve his magical effects. Other than that, he's all traits (Gith, Skeletal Appearance, Devotee of Zerthimon, etc).

Indeed! Dak'kon was a Zerth. A Zerth is a special devotee of Zerthimon, both warrior and wizard; the karach blade he carries is the special weapon used by the Zerth. I will probably create a "Zerth Subsetting," but keep in mind that the main Githzerai culture is made up of warrior monks (and a few other professions). It is technically possible to run a Githzerai with the lifepaths of Man, but I don't think they cover Githzerai very thoroughly. There's a big difference between living in the plane of Limbo and living in a Middle Ages sort of environment.


About Modron PCs: if you can't play a Modron that hasn't gone rogue, and once he's gone rogue he can't take any more Modron LPs, then the only purpose of a Modron LP is to distinguish between Modrons who went rogue at different points in their lives.

So what's the difference between a Modron who went rogue as a Hexton from one who went rogue as a Septon? If it's just their appearance, that could easily be a trait.

Not simply their appearance. Let me explain a little further.

The first thing you need to know is that modrons are immortal. They will live forever if they are not physically destroyed. They have collected the energy of their race into a sort of "pool"; when a modron dies, his energy returns to the "pool". And when modrons die, they are replaced by a modron of the next lowest rank. (And down and down, till a monodrone splits in two).

Each modron caste is successively more powerful than the castes that precede it. Not only do their appearances change dramatically (suddenly and violently at the time of promotion), their abilities become exactly like every other modron in the caste they just entered.

SO! Let's assume we have two modron Settings: the Regulus Setting and the Rogue Subsetting.

If I give a player character a 6-LP limit, he could choose the Born Regulus (Monodrone), Duodrone, Tridrone, Quadrone and Pentadrone LPs. A pentadrone has the body shape of a five-pointed star and certain abilities common to all pentadrones. Then the player might choose one LP from the Rogue Setting (any one allowed to him). He would retain all the abilities of the caste he was in when he "left Regulus", and would progress as an adventurer, not as a modron.

If he chose only three LPs from the Regulus Setting and three LPs from the Rogue Setting, he'd have ended his modron-ness as a Tridrone, which is shaped like a three-sided pyramid, and has Tridron abilities, but he will also have had more time to advance in the Rogue Setting.

So it does matter. Just like, "Should I decide to take a Lead to the Religious Subsetting as a Squire, a Page or a Knight?" A player can take as much or as little as he wants from the "Regulus Setting", and his choice will tremendously effect his appearance and abilities.,

There is a free d20 web supplement (which was copied from the original Planescape setting) that tells all about modrons. If anyone is interested, I can find it and link you to it here. (I don't like d20 much, but the supplement has all the proper information about modrons and how each caste differs from the other).

[stormsweeper]

Each modron caste is successively more powerful than the castes that precede it. Not only do their appearances change dramatically (suddenly and violently at the time of promotion), their abilities become exactly like every other modron in the caste they just entered.

This sounds exactly like an argument not to do lifepaths, but instead burn up the modrons as indvidual creatures. If you even do that. In my old age, I've stopped bothering, except where needed. I've found that player interest and interaction with NPCs and settings is inversely proportional to how much pre-game work I put into them.

In any case, lifepaths are supposed to be pools of points for stats and skills, and a list of things those points can be spent on. There's no identicality there, unless both players spend points in exactly the same way. They're also meant to "stack," not replace all the qualities of the creature with each iteration.

[ChrisG]

Koh, you've clearly put more points into Planescape-wise than I have. :)

[Koh-I-Noor]

This sounds exactly like an argument not to do lifepaths, but instead burn up the modrons as indvidual creatures. If you even do that. In my old age, I've stopped bothering, except where needed. I've found that player interest and interaction with NPCs and settings is inversely proportional to how much pre-game work I put into them.

I do see your point, and it's a legitimate one I feel I must consider. And I had planned on letting the lifepaths "stack" -- counted on it, in fact -- although some traits or skills can replace others (for example, slavery can remove some of the prideful traits of the Noble Setting). Obviously, all of a modron's physical description traits would change completely upon promotion the next caste.

The problem I have with making them individual creatures instead of one long, though admittedly heavily futzed-with string of lifepaths is that it's less clear to players what choosing one creature or the other to use as a base for a character means in terms of lifepaths. The modron culture, while alien, is rich enough that I feel a main lifepath or something similar MUST exist -- because there will need to be corollary lifepaths for rogue modrons. (I'm sure there'll be at least three). Human idioms do not represent modrons at all, in any way. There needs to be a little wiggle room and richness during character creation ro do justice to the potential of modrons.

After all, Orcs have their own set of lifepaths, and theoretically, they're just smart mosters and could be done as burned monsters. Luke gave them emotional attributes and their own lifepaths and settings, and to me that creates a cultural richness that just isn't there with mere burned monsters.


In any case, lifepaths are supposed to be pools of points for stats and skills, and a list of things those points can be spent on. There's no identicality there, unless both players spend points in exactly the same way. They're also meant to "stack," not replace all the qualities of the creature with each iteration.

You're probably right; I should create each caste as a burned monster. However, there really ought to be lifepaths there for rogue modrons. So I might call that string of fifteen monsters a "special lifpath": it functions as a rigid lifepath and fifteen separate monsters at the same time. I can then create a few other normal Settings for rogue modrons.

I'm open to any option, as long as the options do the modrons (and Githzerai, and any other race) the proper cultural feel. I want to do right by them as far as Planescape is concerned and capture the magic that makes me love the setting in the first place. I don't care how I do it, as long as the end result does the setting justice.

(And there is a significantly large published anthology of adventures revolving around modrons called "The Great Modron March". For it to work in BW, the modron race must be fully articulated.)


Koh, you've clearly put more points into Planescape-wise than I have. Smile

Well... let's hope so. This isn't going to be any minor effort where I'll quit halfway; Planescape will be fully playable, authenticated and and enjoyable in BW by the time I'm done, or I'll eat my hat and coat.

And hey, if that means BW veterans have to yell at me on the forums, I welcome the criticism. I'm basically alone in my pursuit of converting Planescape to BW here -- we have geeks, but people willing to convert obscure, "outdated" (aka, a lot better than Eberron) settings to BW? Nah.

[Koh-I-Noor]

And upon consideration, that will probably be the best course of action: Create each modron caste as an individually burned monster. Players may choose a caste to start with, and each caste will count as a certain number of lifepaths. Monodrone counts as 1 LP, Duodrone counts as 2 LP, etcetera. Of course, every player will have to take a Lead to at least one "Rogue Modron Setting" Lifepath.

I'm thinking of making the modrons' Emotional Attribute "Logic" or "Supreme Logic," because that's exactly what they're all about. In this way, a modron who reaches a 10 exponent in "Logic" returns to Mechanus as part of the background energy, in much the same way Grief and Faith work for humans.

I plan on releasing the fully converted setting in a professionally done and illustrated PDF. Working with PDFs and graphics is one of my little hobbies. So for those of you interested in this setting, look forward to it being available sometime next year. Production might be delayed until the release of the Magic Burner if I find I need that ruleset.

As far as the setting itself goes, I believe the basic Planescape Campaign Setting is available as an eBook, and most of the other setting material is also avaialable as PDFs. There are also other ways of getting to the main Planescape setting information and adventures; contact me if you are interested.

(But I will include all the necessary information from the main campaign setting in the PDF. I'll have to check into the copyright laws to see just what is allowed, but I believe free PDFs may contain certain kinds of copyrighted information -- especially cosidering that the setting books are long out of print.)

[Judd]

Modrons are all about logic but stories about Modrons are about that logic breaking down.

Isn't that like having dwarven trait be about beards or elvish traits be about trees? Its a part of them but their stories, which is what emotional attributes amount to, are about something a bit deeper, I'd think.

[Koh-I-Noor]

Modrons are all about logic but stories about Modrons are about that logic breaking down.

Not necessarily. The Great Modron March, exploring Mechanus and Regulus and meeting the inhabitants, interacting with the Modron legal and/or political infrastructure and soliciting Modrons to assist with tasks during adventures are all legitimate story elements in which Modrons, and the curious, wondrous workings of their strange and logical culture play a part. After all, it's impossible to appreciate the oddity that is a rogue Modron unless one has had some exposure to "normal" Modrons.

Stories about rogue Modrons will almost always occur when that Modron is a player character. (There is no Planescape canon to describe what rogue Modrons are like, aside from the fact that they are outcasts of Modron society.)


Isn't that like having dwarven trait be about beards or elvish traits be about trees? Its a part of them but their stories, which is what emotional attributes amount to, are about something a bit deeper, I'd think.

Well, Logic is paramount to Modrons and central to their existence, in as meaningful a way as Faith is for humans -- but even more so. All Modrons share the trait -- every single one. It's a wonderful story hook, because Modrons' logic sometimes defies human understanding. (For example, a Modron librarian might categorize all the books in a library according to the square of their page counts, or by the last page in a book which contains an illustraion).

Beards are a distincitve trait of Dwarves, but beards aren't emotional. Greed, however, is. For the Modrons, so is Logic. Logic is their god, and Modrons are renowned for such feats as (for example) being undefeated in games of strategy and skill.

So I would have to disagree with you about Modrons and Logic. Mechanus is the plane of Law, Regulus is the crux upon which Mechanus turns, and the Modrons, under Primus' direction, sustain it all.

(The central purpose of their existence is to mainain Mechanus.)

[Judd]

Alright, I bow before your superior modron-wise. I'm still dubious as to how it would work at the table. Burn up this world and let us know how it plays for ya.

[MetalBard]

Yes, I definitely want to see how all this Planescape stuff is ported over to BW. Mind you, I'd probably take a more ad hoc approach, myself, since I don't have all that much time these days. I'm a huge Planescape fan and look forward to your contributions on the boards.

[Koh-I-Noor]

Yes, I definitely want to see how all this Planescape stuff is ported over to BW. Mind you, I'd probably take a more ad hoc approach, myself, since I don't have all that much time these days. I'm a huge Planescape fan and look forward to your contributions on the boards.

Hey, even one fan here doubles my determination to "git 'er done". It is a big project, and for the forseeable future I will have the time to devote to completing and perfecting it. The most important things to port will be many of the monsters and races, perhaps some tweaking of a few lifepaths, and a good, hard look at the magic system and ESPECIALLY the Faith system (as far as magic goes, I will make Planescape adapt to BW instead of vice versa. I'm certainly not going to convert AD&D spells to BW; that's a fool's errand!)

I think you'll like it; I'm a careful and thorough designer (hobbyist only, mind you!). I also tend to pull off a pretty snazzy presentation with my final PDFs. What matters most, of course, is what's inside.