General Magic Question

[mike_ravenwood]

Ok certain spells in in the list say things like effect ignores armor. I don't have the book in front of me so I'm not sure of the spell. Anyway I was wondering if ranged attacks spells are stopped by armor. I was assuming that spells that effect their target directly (aka have the Presence Origin and effect a Single Target) ignore armor. Spells that originate at the caster and travel to the target could be stopped by armor. Other considerations come into the play, can ranged spells be Avoided or Shield Blocked? I don't remeber reading anything about this in the Magic sections but I could have overlooked it. Just wondering how other people were running this. The mage in my game is blessed with incredible luck and has yet to roll anything less than 8 successes anytime he's ever cast a spell! So avoiding or blocking wouldn't have much effect on the people he's destoryed, but it seems to need mechanic here somewhere.


Mike

[Kublai]

Magic in our campaigns cannot be blocked by mundane means. That means no amount of armor will protect you from a Rain of Fire (unless you have that Dwarfy stuff!). White Fire ignores the thickest steel and heaviest shield.

Magic in BW is nasty! The only protection from sorcery is sorcery. If your players - or your NPCs! - are looking for the equivalent of a Saving Throw, they are going to be disappointed.

As I see it, in BW magic is not like dumb artillery. Magic fulfills the intent of the caster. Thus, if the intent is to hit the enemy with a ::cough:: Fiber Ball, the magic will make sure this happens.

[nebulousmenace]

I would think it depends on the technique of the spell.

To use the examples from Abstraction - "I incinerate him on the spot!" wouldn't be blocked by armor, whereas "I fling a bolt of flame at him!" might be shield-blockable. . . the first time. If it's a REALLY good sheild, maybe twice.

[luke]

Let's talk MAGIC THEORY!!

Just what is going on behind the bushy eyebrows and busy fingers of a sorcerer? Just what is he mumbling about? And what does it mean?

In Burning Wheel when a wizard casts a spell he is using sorcery to name all of the various elements of the spell and what the intended effect is. Those "names" are the core of creation and they hold power over more than just what we as people perceive around us.

Each object, person, plant or animal possesses an aura. This aura contains all of the information regarding their identity, their emotions, their past and (some say) even their future. This aura (or manifestation of true-self) also contains the "name" of the person/place/thing and thus is the very key to that person/place/thing.

When a sorcerer in Burning Wheel casts a spell he is directly manipulating/augmenting/attacking auras. This is why spells generally have indiscriminate ranges like Sight or Presence. Presence=Everyone who can feel your aura. Sight=The very limits of tangible aura. This is why Measured Area or Elapsed Time is so hard to incorporate into spells—these are very hard to represent auricly.

So, whether he knows it or not, a sorcerer is playing with aura when he casts a spell. These auras tie into one another and the very fabric of creation, which is why sorercy is so dangerous to others AND the caster.

Thus if you meet the criteria for the spell (you are within the area of effect, you are the origin of the spell, you are vulnerable to this impetus, etc), you are effected by its outcome. No questions asked—so long as it is successfully cast.

Ok, that's all fine and good, but what about spells with tangible physical effects like Shards? Surely Shards should be stopped by armor! Not necessarily. It's magic. And there could be any number of reasons why even the best armor couldn't stop magically exploding stone. If this seems unreasonable, give an armor save. Savvy mages will easily find ways around this, though. (Players in my game already Shards shields, spear handles, canteens, bowls, cups, etc.)

But the more spectacular spells? Especially Wind, Fire and White Element? I don't think that leather and metal helps at all against such things. Can you avoid them? I don't know. But can you dodge bullets? No, you can't. But you can think ahead and not be where the bullet is going to be fired (like out of sight!). Burning Wheel is tough and harsh. Often problems (like powerful wizards) require more thought than heroics to overcome. No matter how invulnerable or deadly sorcery makes someone they are still mortal—they still have many, many weaknesses that can be exploited.

Using Mike's wizard as an example: If he gains a reputation as a powerful wizard he will attract the attention of powerful beings. Inversely, little snits will want to take him down just to get a rep. How will they do it? Will they confront him on the field in open battle? Nah, they'll ambush him while he's asleep. Or poison him. Or roll a rock onto him while he's climbing a narrow pass. Try and stop that with a quick little incantation!

I'm rambling.
Thoughts?
-abzu[/list]

[Mad Hatter]

My interpretation, and one I am inclined to retain in my own game, is that there are two kinds of physical effect spells. With some, the magic directly effects the target in order to blind, injure, etc. him. In others, the magic is creating some other, nonmagical, effect, such as fire, lightning, and the like. In the second case, anything that would protect the target from the actual damage is still effective. Obviously, as abzu stated, you can get around some of these. Creating shards from a target's own armor will pretty effectively negate any benefit he might have normally received from the armor.

My $.02