Peter Knutsen
12-12-2005, 10:13 PM
I bought the Revised Edition of Burning Wheel a couple of weeks ago, and I have now read parts of the books, especially those that have to do with character creation, since that's my main interest.
All page number references are to the Revised Character Burner, and I'm only really interested in the Mannish section, so that's what this is about (no Orcs, Elves or Dwarves).
1. On p130, under note 15 (for City Dweller) it says that the Sorcerer lifepath requires Neophyte Sorcerer or Arcane Devotee. Where is the Arcane Devotee lifepath? I can't find it! (This is a general problem with Burning Wheel - finding the lifepaths you want. It is particularly bad when you enter the more restrictive parts of the system, such as Sorcerer which has very strict "previous path requirements").
2. I'm not at all happy with characters being required to take the first trait of all their lifepaths. E.g. Neophyte Sorcerer: They all end up respectfull of their betters, i.e. behavioral clones. That's stereotypical enough if there's just sorcerer in the party (and whose player hasn't been able to find the Arcane Devotee lifepath) - in any such party, the sorc will be predictably humble - but what if it's an all-sorcerer party? They'll all be alike!! Thirdly, it is just counter-intuitive that all sorcerers must be humble. Some of them are bound to be more gifted than others, which could very well manifest itself at arrogance (e.g. someone with 6 in both mental attributes, and a bunch of mental advantages such as Eidetic Memory). This also applies to other lifepaths, although it may not be as big a problem, because few other lifepaths (seem to me to) have such severe entry requirements as Sorcerer does.
3. In general, how does one navigate the lifepaths easily? There's no index of them, or any kind of master table, and there's in particular no help for people who wish to fast-track to particular high-end lifepaths (e.g. Bishop or Abbott) - and keep in mind that this will also be useful for GMs who create their NPCs according to the rules. Often, one can't even figure out which setting to look in, to find something.
4. Many of the Traits are not at all self-explanatory. For instance, what does Bad Egg do? I have no clue whatsoever. Same goes for many, many other Traits. (Also, those that have explanations have said explanations scattered all over the book. Most difficult)
5. I'm seriously not understanding the logic of players paying character creation currency for "traits" (using it in the broader sense, rather than in BW's sense) that are wholly and inarguably detrimental. I'd appreciate an explanation from one of the designers.
6. On page 21, it says that the demo character has 21 skill points, but I add it up to 22 skill points (not counting the 3 general points from the born LP): 3+7+6+6=22. Is that a mistake in the text, or have I misunderstood something?
7. Where's the errata?
8. Is there no way to raise Steel or Reflexes, during character creation, other than raising the underlying statistics (or, in the case of Steel, "changing your mind" about the answer to one or more of the questions). I'm used to systems where you can pay "character creation currency" to increase such values.
9. Where are all the free PDFs? The Revised Character Burner promises free downloadable PDFs for Enchantment (a Wheel) and Summoning, but I can't seem to find them anywhere on the site.
10. How does one make a character that can learn the Summoning skill? Yes, I know I can skim the entire lifepath section until I actually find the one (or two) lifepaths that offers this skill, but that strikes me as kind of broken (also I'm famously good at not noticing things - I may have to skim it three or four times before I actually spot it). It's workable for skills that are in many lifepaths, e.g. Stealthy, but in the case of a rare skill, a player might come to the campaign with a particular character concept in mind that requires that skill, and then he'll have to hunt until he finds one of those very few lifepaths that gives it (or more likely give up on the campaign, if not on the rules system entirely). A "reverse"-character creation section would have been useful. Or even just a list of all the lifepaths that have to do with sorcery or with religion (because these are scattered among so many settings - city, noble, religious..., so that they're hard to get a hold of) and possibly any others that have very specific requirements (top-end military leaders such as General and Admiral, maybe).
11. Let's say I'm making a physician character, so I spend 20 RPs on a physician workshop (p166). Can I spend another 20 RPs on a "moderate sized business" (p169), or is that included in the workshop or what? (Keep in mind: I might actually *want* to spend those additional 20 RPs because it'll give me more Property, which will give me more Ressources and gets me closer to getting a grey shade for Circles).
12. I not at all sure that I understand the text on page 28, about spending five Ressource exponent points to get a grey shade for your Ressource..s. Let's say that my character has managed to spend 120 RPs on Property and other things that grant Ressources, so that he gets to have 120/15=8 black Ressources. Can he then chose between 8 black Ressources or 3 grey Ressources? That doesn't make sense to me, why would he chose 3G over 8B? I must have misunderstood something, but I can't see what it is.
13. From a character creation point of view, what are some good benchmark values for Ressources? The only thing I can find (without opening the second rule book, which I shouldn't be required to do anyway) is that the ex-priest from the intro fluff to the Mannish section has Ressources B2 which is a "small stipend" (for teaching). So 2B is very modest, or what? What's really rich like? Are we talking 5B or 7B or what? What's the Ressources of an average medieval Bishop, say the Bishop of a typical large town? Or a merchant (ex-captain) who owns four cogs (cargo ships)?
14. How feasible is it to create a Human character who's both into Sorcery and religious magic? (I know I could try it myself, but I won't be doing that any time soon, so I might as well ask, to see if anybody on here has done it).
15. Is it possible to get a White shade for Circles, if one spends an absurd amount of RPs on the right stuff? 50 rPs gives you Grey shade Circles. What about 250 or 500 RPs for White Circles?
16. Should the "starting circle bonus" text on page 27 be read literally?
If a player spends 50 or more ressource points on property (not gear) and relationships, his base starting Circles is raised by one
And page 28
Total the ressource points that the player spent on his character's PROPERTY, REPUTATIONS and AFFILIATIONS...
(then divide by 15 to get Ressources).
If yes, this means the following:
Property adds to both Circle Bonus and Ressources
Relationships adds to Circle Bonus, but never to Ressources.
Reputations add to Ressources, but never to Circle Bonus.
Affiliations add to Ressources, but never to Circle Bonus
Am I correct? The book is explicit about Relationships not adding to Ressources (which makes sense), but what about the other way around? It's not entirely intuitive that Reputations and (in particular) Affiliations doesn't add to the (potential) Circle Bonus (black -> grey).
All page number references are to the Revised Character Burner, and I'm only really interested in the Mannish section, so that's what this is about (no Orcs, Elves or Dwarves).
1. On p130, under note 15 (for City Dweller) it says that the Sorcerer lifepath requires Neophyte Sorcerer or Arcane Devotee. Where is the Arcane Devotee lifepath? I can't find it! (This is a general problem with Burning Wheel - finding the lifepaths you want. It is particularly bad when you enter the more restrictive parts of the system, such as Sorcerer which has very strict "previous path requirements").
2. I'm not at all happy with characters being required to take the first trait of all their lifepaths. E.g. Neophyte Sorcerer: They all end up respectfull of their betters, i.e. behavioral clones. That's stereotypical enough if there's just sorcerer in the party (and whose player hasn't been able to find the Arcane Devotee lifepath) - in any such party, the sorc will be predictably humble - but what if it's an all-sorcerer party? They'll all be alike!! Thirdly, it is just counter-intuitive that all sorcerers must be humble. Some of them are bound to be more gifted than others, which could very well manifest itself at arrogance (e.g. someone with 6 in both mental attributes, and a bunch of mental advantages such as Eidetic Memory). This also applies to other lifepaths, although it may not be as big a problem, because few other lifepaths (seem to me to) have such severe entry requirements as Sorcerer does.
3. In general, how does one navigate the lifepaths easily? There's no index of them, or any kind of master table, and there's in particular no help for people who wish to fast-track to particular high-end lifepaths (e.g. Bishop or Abbott) - and keep in mind that this will also be useful for GMs who create their NPCs according to the rules. Often, one can't even figure out which setting to look in, to find something.
4. Many of the Traits are not at all self-explanatory. For instance, what does Bad Egg do? I have no clue whatsoever. Same goes for many, many other Traits. (Also, those that have explanations have said explanations scattered all over the book. Most difficult)
5. I'm seriously not understanding the logic of players paying character creation currency for "traits" (using it in the broader sense, rather than in BW's sense) that are wholly and inarguably detrimental. I'd appreciate an explanation from one of the designers.
6. On page 21, it says that the demo character has 21 skill points, but I add it up to 22 skill points (not counting the 3 general points from the born LP): 3+7+6+6=22. Is that a mistake in the text, or have I misunderstood something?
7. Where's the errata?
8. Is there no way to raise Steel or Reflexes, during character creation, other than raising the underlying statistics (or, in the case of Steel, "changing your mind" about the answer to one or more of the questions). I'm used to systems where you can pay "character creation currency" to increase such values.
9. Where are all the free PDFs? The Revised Character Burner promises free downloadable PDFs for Enchantment (a Wheel) and Summoning, but I can't seem to find them anywhere on the site.
10. How does one make a character that can learn the Summoning skill? Yes, I know I can skim the entire lifepath section until I actually find the one (or two) lifepaths that offers this skill, but that strikes me as kind of broken (also I'm famously good at not noticing things - I may have to skim it three or four times before I actually spot it). It's workable for skills that are in many lifepaths, e.g. Stealthy, but in the case of a rare skill, a player might come to the campaign with a particular character concept in mind that requires that skill, and then he'll have to hunt until he finds one of those very few lifepaths that gives it (or more likely give up on the campaign, if not on the rules system entirely). A "reverse"-character creation section would have been useful. Or even just a list of all the lifepaths that have to do with sorcery or with religion (because these are scattered among so many settings - city, noble, religious..., so that they're hard to get a hold of) and possibly any others that have very specific requirements (top-end military leaders such as General and Admiral, maybe).
11. Let's say I'm making a physician character, so I spend 20 RPs on a physician workshop (p166). Can I spend another 20 RPs on a "moderate sized business" (p169), or is that included in the workshop or what? (Keep in mind: I might actually *want* to spend those additional 20 RPs because it'll give me more Property, which will give me more Ressources and gets me closer to getting a grey shade for Circles).
12. I not at all sure that I understand the text on page 28, about spending five Ressource exponent points to get a grey shade for your Ressource..s. Let's say that my character has managed to spend 120 RPs on Property and other things that grant Ressources, so that he gets to have 120/15=8 black Ressources. Can he then chose between 8 black Ressources or 3 grey Ressources? That doesn't make sense to me, why would he chose 3G over 8B? I must have misunderstood something, but I can't see what it is.
13. From a character creation point of view, what are some good benchmark values for Ressources? The only thing I can find (without opening the second rule book, which I shouldn't be required to do anyway) is that the ex-priest from the intro fluff to the Mannish section has Ressources B2 which is a "small stipend" (for teaching). So 2B is very modest, or what? What's really rich like? Are we talking 5B or 7B or what? What's the Ressources of an average medieval Bishop, say the Bishop of a typical large town? Or a merchant (ex-captain) who owns four cogs (cargo ships)?
14. How feasible is it to create a Human character who's both into Sorcery and religious magic? (I know I could try it myself, but I won't be doing that any time soon, so I might as well ask, to see if anybody on here has done it).
15. Is it possible to get a White shade for Circles, if one spends an absurd amount of RPs on the right stuff? 50 rPs gives you Grey shade Circles. What about 250 or 500 RPs for White Circles?
16. Should the "starting circle bonus" text on page 27 be read literally?
If a player spends 50 or more ressource points on property (not gear) and relationships, his base starting Circles is raised by one
And page 28
Total the ressource points that the player spent on his character's PROPERTY, REPUTATIONS and AFFILIATIONS...
(then divide by 15 to get Ressources).
If yes, this means the following:
Property adds to both Circle Bonus and Ressources
Relationships adds to Circle Bonus, but never to Ressources.
Reputations add to Ressources, but never to Circle Bonus.
Affiliations add to Ressources, but never to Circle Bonus
Am I correct? The book is explicit about Relationships not adding to Ressources (which makes sense), but what about the other way around? It's not entirely intuitive that Reputations and (in particular) Affiliations doesn't add to the (potential) Circle Bonus (black -> grey).