Lifepath trait discounts

[rafial]

So in the process of burning NPCs, I ran across the liability of gifted/faithful characters that others have mentioned before. A character that needs to take one of these very expensive traits pretty much rules out them having any other interesting traits. In the case of NPCs, I got out my little french car and just awarded some of them extra traits as I saw fit, rather than accounting for trait points, but I wondered about how this issue could be handled in the general lifepath system proper.

One idea I had was that certain lifepaths could provide a "discount" on purchasing one of these traits. I like the idea of a faithless priest, or a failed wizards, so having a priest or sorcerer lifepath shouldn't automatically award you faithful/gifted, but what if having those lifepaths reduced the trait cost to say, 3 points? That would make a big difference. And for somebody who wants a "hobbyist sorcerer" (ala Grey Mouser) they'd still have to pay the full five and buy necessary skills out of their general skill pool, which would make that ability their defining quirk (and low powered), as it should bit.

Has this been tried?

[luke]

Hm. I'll admit, the Gift is expensive and it's pricing does preclude other traits for those who make straight sorcerers.

But there are reasons for this, and there are other methods for earning trait points.

First, the Gifted trait is EXTREMELY powerful. Using the Abstraction rules, there is NOTHING a mage can't do.

Second, most sorcerous lps are amoung the most beneficial in the game. They grant a ton of trait points, a hoard of resources, a good amount of skill points, and access to extremely potent skills.

Third, if you'd like more trait points for your Gifted character, get creative with the lifepaths, or make the character a little older and take additional LPs to get you more trait points. I can post suggestions if you'd like, but I'd rather you figure it out. I can get over 10 trait points in 23 years using the Lifepaths of Man, I bet you can do even better.

BW is a game about choices, and the CB is one of the prime sources of said choices. I encourage you to be creative within the rules before resorting to jiggering them.

-L

[DarkeTwilight]

One things I've also considered and will likely do is allow traits to be gained later in the game. I know it was hinted to if not out right suggested. I burned a char recently using the human life paths. Born Noble, lead to noble setting where he became a minstrel for some time. I then figured while he was a decent minstrel one of his friends influenced him into a less than savory life. So I took the lead to city dweller and spent a little time as both cutpurse and thief. While he wasnt Bad at this trade and he did enjoy the life style he wanted something more free and less risk of having the city guard barge into his home. Thus he took lead to outcast and became a bandit. This left him with a good 5 traits. Affter long deliberation I settled on some of the more charismatic based traits. But it took me awhile because i was tempted to go for affin wich woulda taken all 5 points. I decided if i was a gm and my players had a char like this who focused on knives for combat and his intrament for a passionate hobby. Then with enough in play show and enough time they could EARN the affin trait. If several years of game play pass and every fight he uses his trusty knives and even at night when sitting about the fire on his watch he spent extra time tending and sharpening them. He would eventually aquire the affinity for them. Same with his intrament. if he spent most his free time making certain it was tuned and well tended or playing it then eventually he would aquire a knack or affinity for his instrament.

In short i guess i'm just saying just because a sorcerer doesnt have many left over trait points after gifted, or another char after faith. It doesnt mean the way they play cant gain them more traits later.

[Lxndr]

One thing that I brought into play in my current BW game (that I think I read on here somewhere actually, but I'm not sure and can't find where I might have gotten the idea) is the following little minor tweak:

"In addition to Traits bought with Trait Points, and free Traits from LPs, every character has two 1 point Traits. These points cannot be combined with any other Trait Points, although with GM's approval they can be combined into a single 2-point Trait."

I like this little tweak. It doesn't really wind up overpowering the game (or at least, it hasn't so far) and it keeps characters from only having some of the higher-cost traits. Y'know what I mean?


That said, I could maybe go with the idea that, say, Sorcerer's Apprentice gave you a discount on Gifted... if the Trait points for the LP were reduced appropriately. Sorcerer's Apprentice currently gives 3 TP. Let's say that instead, it allows Gifted to be purchased for 3 instead of 5, but only gives 1 TP. In fact, that's where I thought rafial was coming from in his first post, until I read the responses and then re-read his original post.

This is slightly more complex than the basic rules, but I think it accomplishes the same general purpose: giving the Apprentice better access to Gifted than a non-apprentice would have. Not really convinced it's needed, though.

(Heck, in my games nobody needs to take Gifted to use Sorcery unless they want to cast abstract magic - casting formula spells is allowed to anyone. Which required me to overhaul the TP rewards for apprentice and the like, but there you go.)

[DarkeTwilight]

I actually had considered long and hard on giving the afore mentioned character gifted. Now this may sound munchkin or twinkish but the logic behind it is this. Gifted is being born with the natural talent to mold the essence of magic. This natural talent doesnt mean you know how to simply means you are able to be taught to. So having a character who was born gifted yet never knew it seemed an interesting concept. Granted i would miss out majorly on the traits that would give him some flesh and bones so to speak but i open the door of later in life abandoning the life of a minstrel and rogue and going to a life of magic. The way the mechanics are set up now thats simply not possible.

I do however like your idea of spells of a more universal nature, meaning spells known far and wide, are able to be taught to anyone. The single flaw in my opinion is that if a Tolkien based settings, wich i sorta got the idea was what BW was orginally designed for. There were only 5 sorcerers of note. Gandalph, Souromon, Soron, Pothiantus(I think thats the spelling and pronunceation) and a fifth that escapes me. But of these five only 3 truely played any form of role. So if your playing a game in middle earth you would essencially be altering the way magic is percieved. Form Wizards being fabled masters of time and space and a rarity among the lands to something anyone can learn with enough time and patients.

[luke]

just like to note for the record that traits are meant to be gained and lost as described on page 189-190 of the Burning Wheel.

thanks,
-Luke