So this may seem a bit extreme, but...

[Burninator]

I sold a good chunk (80-90 percent) of my d20 books, and it's thanks to Burning Wheel. I feel that this game is just so perfect enough that it's all I need. Okay, well, maybe preparing to move two states away played a part too, but I could have just as easily seen myself shelling out the extra $40+ in shipping costs if it weren't for looking up at my shelf, seeing the six BW books printed thus far side by side, and realizing that they're all I need.

[ldd23]

Six?

[Thor]

Burning Wheel, Character Burner, Monster Burner, Under A Serpent Sun, Burning Sands: Jihad, and Dark Elves: The Path of Spite.

[Iskander]

I'm guessing:

BWR (2 books)
MonBu
Paths of Spite
Under a Serpent Sun
Jihad

[Drozdal]

3 sets baby!

[kruug]

I feel that this game is just so perfect enough that it's all I need.

Hmmm. Good point. I sunk waaaay too much money into those books, and usually got bored halfway through reading them. It's either boring crunch, or fluff with no practical application. I'll probably never touch my d20 books again. Maybe I'll sell mine, too. Probably not.

[Iskander]

I eBayed all my d20 books a few months ago (being laid off helped push me over the edge). I realised over 60% of their cost, even taking shipping into account - because you're a muppet if you don't pad the shipping.

[Burninator]

Hmmm. Good point. I sunk waaaay too much money into those books, and usually got bored halfway through reading them. It's either boring crunch, or fluff with no practical application. I'll probably never touch my d20 books again. Maybe I'll sell mine, too. Probably not.

The lack of any interesting innovation was part of what did me in. "Oh look, another book with new Prestige Classes/Feats/Spells/Magic Items. Yawn." Even the books that attempted to really present something new (Incarnum and Tome of Magic) left me unimpressed since it was still at its heart, just a new spin on the same old spellcasting.

And then when you combine this with the fact that I prefer a game system that promotes a game based more on character interaction and less on "ten-to-fifteen minutes RP followed by an hour of combat, wash, rinse, repeat" then I saw what had to be done. :)

[kruug]

The lack of any interesting innovation was part of what did me in. "Oh look, another book with new Prestige Classes/Feats/Spells/Magic Items. Yawn." Even the books that attempted to really present something new (Incarnum and Tome of Magic) left me unimpressed since it was still at its heart, just a new spin on the same old spellcasting.

Amen, that's what really pissed me off. Instead of making a fine book like the Monster Burner, which has a lot of staple monsters, PLUS all the tools you need to make ANYTHING you can dream up, they provide us with four Monster Manuals, and no advice for creation. Because that would shoot their profits in the foot. It's all just money, money, money. A fun, functional system is their second priority at best.

Oh, if only I had known about BW before I sunk $350 on a shit system. Ah, oh well. The art is nice though. Maybe I'll cut the pictures out. :D

[Suicide King]

To be fair to WotC and the people who play their games, that's really what they're supposed to do. That's what the players of the system want, in general.

Not everyone wants toolkits to make their own shit up, some people wants examples of cool shit so they can pick and choose. It's less time-consuming.
Also, monster and prestige class creation in D&D is very easy, because you have so many cool examples to compare to, even in the core books, that it's easy fun.

I like playing D&D, making up crazy new feats and prestige classes for my character and killing me some monsters. I don't like running it, for the very same reasoins, but that's another story.

[khelek]

What i dislike is that my friends that play D20 think in terms of Challenge Rating rather than story. It is so cold to me that I have no interest in even playing again. Also in their current game they are gurrenteed resurection. Their punishment for dying is that they must sit out a game. They seem to enjoy it, but not for me anymore (not for a while either).

[zipht]

In their current game they are gurrenteed resurection. Their punishment for dying is that they must sit out a game. They seem to enjoy it, but not for me anymore (not for a while either).

yes, this is one of the reasons my group left D20 behind. Death is just too common and players death can easly be meaningless.

another reason for me was the mini's game that is D20 combat. I think that Computer games can do tactical combat like that better. in fact I think this is why we lost one PC's she would rather play WoW then p&p D&D.

DoW is what made me change systems thought. I had been wanting a way to fight with words for sometime, I really think this is want has been missing from my games for years.

[khelek]

From experience (I ran thenew Vampire for a year) White Wolf is goign the way of D20 in some respects... fights are becoming a lot more like the D20 fights (in my opinion). and too much emphasis on Niche Protection.

[donbaloo]

Death is just too common and players death can easly be meaningless.


Man, ya'll are some hardcore, cold-hearted gaming mofo's. Do you even try to make it to the funerals? :wink:

[ChrisG]

http://static.flickr.com/49/149521745_a131816035.jpg
:roll:

[khelek]

I don't know, I think I saw the horse twitch!

I get the message.

[Suicide King]

Now, for something infenitely more important than thrashing/defending DnD.

Burninator - Welcome man! It's always great to see new BW players, whether we have the same stance in DnD or not, it's good to see you.

[kruug]

They say group therapy helps you get over serious psychological trauma. :lol:

[Burninator]

Burninator - Welcome man! It's always great to see new BW players, whether we have the same stance in DnD or not, it's good to see you.

Well, I'm not too terribly new. I bought the books last August or September, I just tend to lurk here more than I post. :)