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Yagathai
01-15-2004, 06:29 PM
Since all the cool kids are doing it, I'm going to throw some of the setting information for the world I'm building for the 3-4 session demo I'm going to be running come next Tuesday.

I'm basing the setting (very) roughly on Europe in the early
17th century during the 30 Years War:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/thirty_years_war.htm
http://www.pipeline.com/~cwa/TYWHome.htm

This war is between various human nations located on the only continent
that any of you know about. The entire known world is an area roughly
nine million square kilometers (around the size of China) bounded by the
ocean to the east, thick swampland and eventually ocean to the south,
tundra and glaciers to the north, a nation of hostile orcs to the
southwest and a thickly forested monster-infested wilderness to the
west. Legend has it that there are habitable lands on the other side of
that wilderness, but if anyone's ever survived the trip out there,
they've never made it back.

Technology and society is roughly as advanced as early 17th century
Europe, though there are a number of notable differences:

- There was no Renaissance or similar explosion of knowledge and
culture. For the last several centuries at least, advancement has been
slow and incremental.

- Gunpowder and gunpowder weapons were discovered about 150 years ago,
but they're almost universally shunned. It's widely believed that to
use gunpowder ("fireseed") is to invite death and destruction upon
yourself, and there's a substantial body of anecdotal evidence to back
this up. Nobody knows why, but absolutely terrible things happen to
those that use guns. The commonly accepted peasant superstition is that
demons live in the fireseed, and when it's burned the demons are
released and wreak havoc upon those that freed them.

- As gunpowder weaponry isn't in common use, armor hasn't fallen as far
out of vogue. While heavy platemail, for example, isn't nearly as
common as it once was, it's still used by the more traditional nobles
(especially in the northern nations). Chainmail and plated leather
armors are quite common among your better-equipped soldiers.

- Maritime technology is way behind the curve. The reason for this is
simple: An aquatic species of Great Spider dominates the eastern
coastal waters, and to reach the ocean to the south you have to pass
through swampy archipelagos teeming with amoral and bloodthirsty
savages. Only the nation of Phogos, tucked away in the south-western
corner of the continent, has managed to build up any sort of
ship-building technology, and they're very unwilling to share their
secrets with the rest of the world.

The political situation is as follows: Forty years ago there were 24
human nation-states on the continent. Now there are only five powers of
consequence (a month ago there were six, but more on that later). The
last forty years have been an orgy of wars, revolutions, insurrections,
sackings, betrayals and more bloody pre-retributory strikes than you can
shake a stick at. There have been roughly eight (non-consecutive) years
of relative peace among men in all of that time, and three of those
eight years were spent in an equally brutal war against an orcish horde
that came screaming out of the south-west.

The five major powers are as follows:

The Southern Empire: Centuries ago one single great empire dominated
the continent. All that remains of it now is what used to be the
southernmost province (and the territory that they have managed to take
and hold since the wars began). This is the breadbasket of the
continent, and also the land from where culture and fashion flows. It
is an absolute monarchy. The Southern Empire is bounded by the swamps
and then the ocean in the south, the nation of Phogos in the south-east,
Valken in the north-east, Weir in the north and the Sygossian
Commonwealth in the west.

Phogos: The nation of Phogos occupies a penninsula in the south-western
corner of the continent (think Florida). Phogos is known for producing
the greatest minds in all the world -- if a scientific discovery is
made, it probably happens in Phogos. Phogos is ruled by an oligarchy, a
council of the twelve greatest minds in the land. Until three years the
relatively small nation had managed to remain successfully neutral in
the war that raged outside their borders, until an opportunistic strike
by the Southern Empire while the Sygossians were once again busy with an advancing orcish horde. Much to the Empire's surprise, Phogos unleashed the defensive army that they had spent the last thirty years
constructing. Also, they had apparently made an alliance with several
of the largest tribes of swampdwelling barbarians. The Southern
Empire's invasion force found themselves routed before the combination
of armored, fire-spewing Phogosian war-machines and merciless
cannibalistic barbarians and their bestial steeds. Phogos has the sea
on the south and east, swamplands on the west and the Southern Empire to the north.

Valken: Forty years ago Valken was an insignificant mountain kingdom
just north-west of Weir known for its iron mines and pompous
overformality. Now it's a massive military force that controls almost a
third of the continent. Valken is officially an absolute monarchy, but
in reality power rests in the hands of an uneasy triumvurate of the
King, the Prophet who heads the state religion and the High Marshal who
controls the military. The national character of Valken is disciplined,
very spit-and-polish, and might be summed up by the phrase "alles in
Ordnung". Their recent victory over Kmitin in the north-west makes them
the largest and probably wealthiest of the remaining nations, but they
are also spreading their forces dangerously thin to control so much
territory. They are bordered to the southwest by the Sygossian
Commonwealth, the south by Weir and the southeast by the Southern
Empire. To the east is the ocean, and to the north is a
barbarian-infested winter wasteland.

The Sygossian Commonwealth: The Sygossian Commonwealth is a loosely conglomerated collection of warlike city-states. The orc nations border them to the west, and so whenever the orcs get a horde together and attempt to ravage the human lands -- usually once every generation or so -- the Sygossians are the ones who take the brunt of the blow.
Consequently, their entire culture and society is built around war and
warfare. A man's status in society is based almost wholly on his
success in battle. Family ties are also very important to your average
Sygossian -- alliances and blood-feuds among them stretch back
generations. There are two idiosyncracies unique to the Sygossian
nation: Sygossian women are, by and large, considerably more
'liberated' than the women of other nations. Sygossian law doesn't
discriminate man from woman, but only "warrior" and "non-warrior", and
while women warriors aren't as common as their male counterparts, they
certainly exist. Also, Sygossians are unusually fecund, and multiple
births are extremely common. It's just as likely that a Sygossian woman
will give birth to twins as she will a single child. The Commonwealth
is bordered by screaming mad orcs to the west, the swamplands to the
south, the Southern Empire to the east, Weir to the northeast and until
very recently the nation of Kmitin, now Valken, to the north.

Weir: Nobody knows much of everything about the nation of Weir. The
vast majority of the territory claimed by Weir is taked up by the
Furrowed Sea, a large body of salt-water that's dotted with small
islands. In terms of landmass it's the smallest of all five major
powers, and has enforced a policy of complete and utter isolationism for
as long as anyone can remember. It's a commonly accepted fact that Weir not only condones but also encourages the practice of the Dark Arts.
Around twenty years ago a medium-sized mercenary army crossed the
waist-high rocky berm that delineates the Weir border, intent on carving
out a piece of it for themselves. None of them were ever heard from
again. Weir is located smack dab in the center of all five warring
powers -- the only nation that they don't share a border with is Phogos.

The nation that the game is going to be starting in, and the nation that
all the PCs will be affiliated with, is Kmitin, which was the sixth
major player and dominated the north-western portion of the known world.
The game will begin around three weeks after ther armies were smashed
and routed by Valken forces, as Valken is mopping up pockets of
resistance and beginning to establish control over the conquered nation.
Kmitin used to be a constitutional monarchy. The King was elected by
the Diet, which was a parliament formed by one representative from each
of the 173 noble families of Kmitin. Kmitin was known for their
fantastic heavy cavalry, which until the tragic events of three weeks
ago had never been defeated in the open field.

eruditus
01-21-2004, 12:03 PM
- Gunpowder and gunpowder weapons were discovered about 150 years ago,
but they're almost universally shunned. It's widely believed that to
use gunpowder ("fireseed") is to invite death and destruction upon
yourself, and there's a substantial body of anecdotal evidence to back
this up. Nobody knows why, but absolutely terrible things happen to
those that use guns. The commonly accepted peasant superstition is that
demons live in the fireseed, and when it's burned the demons are
released and wreak havoc upon those that freed them.

F*@K! I have been looking for a good fantasy interpretation for firearms and came upon something similar yet not delivered have as well. I may have to use this officially, yagathai :D

eruditus
01-21-2004, 12:06 PM
- Maritime technology is way behind the curve. The reason for this is
simple: An aquatic species of Great Spider dominates the eastern
coastal waters,
Okay, listen, yagathai.

I believe you should use your powers for good instead of evil. Or at least use them for my own particular brand of evil.

I'll make a deal with you. You let me use the Great Spider idea (I have been trying to figure out a good use for them in an otherwise low fantasy setting) too and I may let your next character be a Great Spider.

Boy, am I going to regret that! :lol:

eruditus
01-21-2004, 12:10 PM
This is a good rationalization to a war-oriented cuture.

Although, its funny, I think the name is rather close to abzu's name for the orcs? no?

spring_violet
01-21-2004, 12:15 PM
I'll make a deal with you. You let me use the Great Spider idea (I have been trying to figure out a good use for them in an otherwise low fantasy setting) too and I may let your next character be a Great Spider.

Have you gone mad!?!

note to self: keep Buli alive at all costs...

Lxndr
01-21-2004, 12:23 PM
Mmmm.

I so want to play in a game where I can be a Great Spider. Yum.

I love them.

spring_violet
01-21-2004, 03:01 PM
Don't get me wrong, a Great Spider pc would be pretty cool.

But Eru is running a game that already has a wolf pc, not to mention whatever creations the necromancer has about. Plus we're talking about Yagathai here :wink: I'm still having flashbacks of Dr. Willy madness...

Lxndr
01-21-2004, 03:34 PM
And really, who better to give a Great Spider to than Dr. Wily?

I'm still kind of sad that there's no "great spiders who interact with humans" lifepath set. I've thought about making one.

Yagathai
01-22-2004, 09:16 PM
Would it surpise you to learn that even before you said anything I already had the LPs for my Great Spider PC all mapped out and ready to go, just in case I could get you to say yes? ;)

Incidentally, and apropos of nothing but Spring_Violet's comment about keeping Buli alive, we've been calculating his VA wrong. According to the rules, if you have a power of B7 or greater, you get +1 VA, which means with his lochaber axe he has... what, a VA of 4?

howmandu
02-04-2004, 12:47 PM
I am a player in Yagathai's game.

I am playing a Ranger, and plan to rid the sea's of the terrible spider menace. Let it be known that if this great spider migrates to Eru's game, i will track him down relentlessly, and kill him, wherever he may roam.

There will be no escaping from me, you 8 legged freak! :D

I really enjoyed the burning process, and while Yagathai
hasn't killed any of us yet, I am sure its coming... in spades!

Conniving Wolf
02-10-2004, 06:29 PM
To all those, spiders may be cool, but wolves are so much better!
I mean, they can bite you and stuff! What can spiders do, spin you into a web? How not cool is that? :lol:

Yagathai
02-26-2004, 12:03 PM
Well, the four-session playtest that I ran has come to an end, and hopefully my players will be posting their thoughts and experiences with the system sometimes soon.

Any time now.

Momentarily.

aghrivaine
02-26-2004, 02:59 PM
Here are my thoughts on Yagathai's campaign, and on Burning Wheel:

One thing that nearly all of our group was puzzled by was the allegedly heavily rp'ing slant that the books proselytize. Now, understand - you're preaching to the converted - we love roleplaying. More or less to the detriment of anything else. In our games in the past we've managed to was more time on fashion and tailoring (I kid you not) than on plot. This is a group that's easily distracted by schtick, I promise you.

Probably because the setting was for a limited time, Yags made a game that was going to showcase a fair amount of combat. However, I think this is Burning Wheel's weakness. What's that you say? Madness!

Allow me to explain: A game that is supposed to emphasize roleplaying over combat ought to have good rules for non-combat interaction, and dramatic rules for combat. Burning Wheel emphasized realism. Realism takes time! I'm reminded of a game from the late 80's, I think it was called "Phoenix Force" that was a modern combat game that was ridiculously realistic. As with BW, in that game, a lot of time at the table is spent running combat, which leaves less time for plot.

We spent a lot of time in combat. In part this is because we have a big group, and we were all new to a fairly complex system. But I don't love combat in roleplaying games, and so my BW experience suffered for it. Yags is a great story teller - unfortunately he spent a lot of time scripting for his villains and running combat, and not nearly enough concentrating on the story.

Here are some of my observations: missile fire is punishingly hard to use. A swordsman is infinitely more capable of dishing it out than a bowman. I know, in the really real world, that's how it would go down, Agincourt notwithstanding. But in a game - I would hope the Ranger would be just as effective as any of the other fighters. Because of the time it took him to knock, draw, aim, acquire, and fire - this just wasn't so. When he did get a shot off, the range penalties were so harsh that he missed as often as not.

Compare and contrast to the ugliness that was my zweihander. I said in another thread, I think yags' rules for it were sort of broken, and experience confirmed it. I cut a bear in two pieces, for cryin' out loud! The system is such that a one on one fight between two sword wielders would be excellent - as a way to recreate fencing, for instance, it would be great. But in a mixed melee, it was sort of unweidly, and quickly favored whomever could dish out the most damage.

On the other hand, rules for things that were noncombat were either maddeningly vague, or overly precise. My character had firebuilding, but not arson training - so we were hard pressed to fire a castle when it became necessary. I have this complain with other "genre" games, where over-specificity ends up making the very thing they're supposed to simulate and encourage more difficult, not less! (7th Sea - a game I love - is a great example. How many skills (which aren't cheap) does it take to be a swashbuckler, in a game about swashbuckling?)

On the plus side - I love the lifepath method of character generation. It's a neat way to have a comprehensive history for your character. If it were more flexible (more general points) I think it would be even better. AS it is, I found myself trying to pick lifepaths to get the skills I wanted, rather than picking life paths which would encourage the skills I wanted. I ended up taking a sort of tortorous path to get there, too.... and the results were funky. For instance, a 4 life path character can't be a sergeant in the Free Companies (presumably mercenary scum) but can be a sergeant in a regular army. Does that make sense?

Even so - the unbalanced flavor was, I think, one of the selling points of the game. If I were running a medieval game where combat was supposed to be infrequent, but very deadly, and characters weren't necessarily supposed to be evenly balanced - BW would be a great choice. Combat is awfully crunchy, but if you don't do it too often, that actually makes it better. It really is deadly, too - which I do like.

Yags background, by the way - was really great. The maddening weirdness of Medieval Poland was grand ... and the weirdness of the Forbidding Woods and all the strange things that happen in other countries gave the game a very primitive and provincial feel. It was one of the most authentically Medieval feeling of any of the fantasy games I've played (even if it was tehcnically Enlightenment era..)

All around a very enjoyable game. I wonder how it work for a long-term campaign ... but for the price, and with the enthusiastic support of this website, it is really excellent.

Certainly one of the most impressive totally new systems I've ever seen. Even with all the lumps in the gravy, it's still mighty fine gravy.

Yagathai
06-23-2004, 04:14 PM
To the Monday Night folks, here's the game setting info.

Hey, Abzu, what do you think of my player Aghrivaine's comments (the post directly above this one)?

luke
06-24-2004, 07:06 PM
Hey, Abzu, what do you think of my player Aghrivaine's comments (the post directly above this one)?

Ok, I've tried to answer this post three times now. Each time, my computer crashes.

So I'll keep this brief: Some of aghri's comments are spot on -- especially in regard to not enough social mechanics support in the game. Everything else, I think, are just his issues with the style of the particular game he played in. The examples he uses seem like on the fly GM calls, rather than actual system mechanics.

Not saying your GMing was at fault! I just suspect that Aghri might have wanted/expected something else from the game.

but this is all conjecture and speculation.
-L