Can Vaylen recognize each other?

[buzz]

I.e., how do two Vyalen in human (or Kerrn, or Mukhadish) host bodies recognize that each other are Vaylen? Since hulling ruins Psychological abilities, I assume they don't have some sort of telepathy or whatever. Or do they?

If they can't, would a human (or Kerrn, or Mukhadish) be able to infiltrate a Vaylen organization?

[zabieru]

Well, a Kerrn couldn't easily infiltrate. Given the history and the very low chance of a Naiven hanging on to a Kerrn host, a Kerrn who claimed to be Vaylen would be checked over very thoroughly.

In the general case, I think the answer lies mainly in common background. In WWII the US Army would ask where you were from and then ask for details about your hometown baseball team. Same thing here. Probably, though, Vaylen who need to work together are introduced by common contacts.

If they really needed to prove it to a stranger, they could always pop out, wiggle tails, and jump back in.

[cmoeller]

I.e., how do two Vyalen in human (or Kerrn, or Mukhadish) host bodies recognize that each other are Vaylen? Since hulling ruins Psychological abilities, I assume they don't have some sort of telepathy or whatever. Or do they?

If they can't, would a human (or Kerrn, or Mukhadish) be able to infiltrate a Vaylen organization?


Excellent comment, Buzz. Something I'd never considered in any detail, which is why it's so cool seeing the Iron Empires coming alive out there in rpg-land. So here's my off-the-cuff thinking.

In the end of Sheva's War, you'll notice the Vaylen fleet commander is nude and tatooed (or body-painted) with tribal markings. That's an idea I was toying with, but obviously couldn't go very far with in the scope of that story. Vaylen cultural norms are going to be radically different from human ones. So among non-infiltrating groups of Vaylen (ie: those who aren't trying to hide among the humans), trying to blend in as a non-valyen would be as tricky as a westerner trying to sneak into a mountain village in Tibet... you'll need to know the local culture pretty damn well or you'll stand out.

As for infiltrators ("fingers"), they're going to have to have some secret handshake or equivilent, probably only known within their clan or special-forces organization. There's going to be plenty of room for friendly-fire accidents in the invasion phase, I'd imagine. Be careful out there!

Chris

[buzz]

Cool stuff, Chris!

I can imagine that Calvaria Integrity Scanners would be just as useful to Vaylen, then; "Make sure eveyrone entering the meeting is hulled." And maybe the Vaylen have access to even more accurate scaning technology...

[luke]

Cool stuff, Chris!

I can imagine that Calvaria Integrity Scanners would be just as useful to Vaylen, then; "Make sure eveyrone entering the meeting is hulled." And maybe the Vaylen have access to even more accurate scaning technology...

Oh DAMN. That's excellent. Consider this stolen.

[khelek]

I was thinking about it this weekend... the whole "can't tell who is Vaylen" is how the Kerrn got away in the first place. I am sure that the Vaylen are as jumpy as soem of the human worlds!

Think of the ruckus that the Kerrn caused when they left, they knew Everything! every code, every location, all the bosses. It was a reverse Infection.

It would have been a scary time to be a body snatching Worm.

[zeotter]

I was thinking about it this weekend... the whole "can't tell who is Vaylen" is how the Kerrn got away in the first place. I am sure that the Vaylen are as jumpy as some of the human worlds!

Think of the ruckus that the Kerrn caused when they left, they knew Everything! every code, every location, all the bosses. It was a reverse Infection.

It would have been a scary time to be a body snatching Worm.
I like this idea, a story of the Vaylens first attempt at infection since the Kerrn uprising. It is stated several times I believe that the Vaylen stop invasions periodically to consolidate their holdings and there would be a lot of consolidating after that particular uprising.

There would be a great deal of caution on the part of the Vaylen, and a lot of secrecy. Fingers may not ever know about other infiltrators until it was absolutely necessary, very Mission Impossible type story plots. The humans might even pick up on it, after getting Intel from the Kerrn and try to take a world back from the Vaylen, now there is a reverse Infection for you :shock:

Just ideas this post sparked in my head... Enjoy :twisted:

[Thor Olavsrud]

I would also note that I don't think the Vaylen hull all humans on the worlds they control. Possibly not even the majority.

Vaylen need and want humans with sophisticated sentience. I imagine worlds designed to shape humans in certain ways. Experience farms, all kinds of wonders. Also breeding programs. The best and brightest and most beautiful are selected as hosts.

It's entirely possible that worlds are held in thrall to the worm without even knowing it.

[stormsweeper]

Should I start the Drizzt countdown now?

[buzz]

Wait a minute...

Don't Tarrak and some of the other CHOT guard in Faith Conquers have white tattoos/tribal markings akin to the ones on the Vaylen hammer crew at the end of Sheva's War Chris mentioned? I (as a reader) assumed it was a CHOT thing, or even just plain fashion.

Maybe that's how Vaylen recognize each other (as Chris was alluding to), especially on a world relatively ignorant of the Vaylen threat. They simply hide in plain sight.

Human: "Hey, nice tat, dude."
Vaylen: "Thank you." Makes a mental note to hull this one next.

[zeotter]

Wait a minute...

Don't Tarrak and some of the other CHOT guard in Faith Conquers have white tattoos/tribal markings akin to the ones on the Vaylen hammer crew at the end of Sheva's War Chris mentioned? I (as a reader) assumed it was a CHOT thing, or even just plain fashion.


I think you are on to something buzz, but I am still jazzed (not quite buzzed yet, :shock: ) about a game of reversed invasion where the humans are trying to get a Vaylen planet back.

It's entirely possible that worlds are held in thrall to the worm without even knowing it.

Very intriguing, Thor, very intriguing :twisted:

[rafial]

I would also note that I don't think the Vaylen hull all humans on the worlds they control. Possibly not even the majority.

Huh... that seems to run counter to the whole "you've got a million offspring in the tanks and you want a better future for all of them" thing.

If the Vaylen could afford to be all picky and choosy, wouldn't they just stay home? :)

[rafial]

And also: I've just been inspired by vision of life on a Vaylen controlled planet, ala the old "Tripods" novels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tripods

On its thirteenth birthday, the child is led to the special hut in the center of the village to be hulled in a special ceremony, as its family looks on and weeps tears of happiness. Afterwards, there is a feast, and dancing.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Huh... that seems to run counter to the whole "you've got a million offspring in the tanks and you want a better future for all of them" thing.

If the Vaylen could afford to be all picky and choosy, wouldn't they just stay home? :)

They're constantly on the hunt for new and better hosts. A better gene pool. Better experiences.

If you put a worm in a simple-minded, uneducated human, you get a simple-minded, uneducated vaylen. If you put a worm in a super-intelligent, richly experienced human, you get a super-intelligent, richly experienced vaylen.

If it were only about bodies, vaylen could clone them by the billions and just slip their offspring into animals. In fact, they do just that. That's what the other castes are.

The Human Caste is reserved for the aristocracy of the vaylen. They are the best and brightest.

Rich experiences, deep emotions and intelligence are the currency of valyen. They are rare and they are valuable. They are the commodities the vaylen clans desire above all others.

[Thor Olavsrud]

And also: I've just been inspired by vision of life on a Vaylen controlled planet, ala the old "Tripods" novels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tripods

On its thirteenth birthday, the child is led to the special hut in the center of the village to be hulled in a special ceremony, as its family looks on and weeps tears of happiness. Afterwards, there is a feast, and dancing.

I loved those novels as a kid!

[Yagathai]

I loved those novels as a kid!

Oh man! Me too!

[zeotter]

And also: I've just been inspired by vision of life on a Vaylen controlled planet, ala the old "Tripods" novels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tripods

On its thirteenth birthday, the child is led to the special hut in the center of the village to be hulled in a special ceremony, as its family looks on and weeps tears of happiness. Afterwards, there is a feast, and dancing.

I haven't thought about those books in years, very cool rafial :D

[buzz]

They're constantly on the hunt for new and better hosts. A better gene pool. Better experiences.
But, dull-witted or not, isn't that human experiencing the world in a way no other Vaylen host can replicate?

And doesn't the Vaylen intellect take over anyway? A dim-witted human is just a host for a sharp-witted Naiven, right?

Or is their sentience and sapience so shaped by the host that it limits them to the host's mental capabilities?

[Thor Olavsrud]

Or is their sentience and sapience so shaped by the host that it limits them to the host's mental capabilities?

Yes. Naiven are not sentient. They use the sentience of their hosts. Stupid host, stupid vaylen. A vaylen can develop certain abilities by living in a host and encoding those experiences. But by and large, they want superior hosts.

The vaylen can genetically engineer all sorts of bodies that are perfectly suited to tasks humans are not. The only problem is they tend to be flat emotionally and the quality of their intelligence is different. Only the Makara are the equivalent of humans on the intelligence front, though they are limited due to the requirement of an aquatic habitat.

[buzz]

But by and large, they want superior hosts.
Basically, I need to homebrew a game where the Vaylen come to 21st century earth and infiltrate MENSA. :)

[cmoeller]

I would also note that I don't think the Vaylen hull all humans on the worlds they control. Possibly not even the majority.

Thor's got it. The majority of conquered worlds deep inside Vaylen space are garden worlds, where only the governing powers are Vaylen, and the humans are left to develop as naturally as possible. There is an unobtrusive harvesting, using different mechanisms depending on taste (lottery, "tax", age, whatever), to cull off hosts for the ruling clan's hungry Naiven. But the Vaylen are good caretakers for the most part. A human world is the goose that lays the golden egg... it doesn't pay to get greedy. How many unhappy humans do you have to kill when a world rises in revolution? What a tragic waste. Such a clan proves it is unfit to hold something so precious. Perhaps they should be deprived of it...

-Chris

[khelek]

Though our game only lists only a few clans, I know the storrie shave hundreds, thousands. I would assume that once a Clan takes a Wrodl it is theirs. and they greedly defend it.

Is the Terror unified enough to not fight over rights to newly conqured/being conqured worlds (I would expect some political manuvering after the dust is setled for the hosts etc) but they would not sabatoge an Infection would they?

I can see a conflict scene where a spacer goes to get help from the system next door, but the planet has alreayd fallen and be remoralized to accept the Vaylen as a Good thing, so they would be happy with their new "life" circumstances. To one day be Chosen, oh Joy! Come and Join us..

[The_Tim]

I've been giving a lot of thought to the Vaylen farm worlds. Most sprung from the notion of running a conspiracy/medical mystery type game on a sub-index void world that effectively has a space blockade due to the isolation. Once the Vaylen stumble on it they approach cautiously. Why? Because one thing that didn't fade as fast was medical tech, specifically a nasty anti-parasite treatment/vaccine that the medics are aware of but unsure of the purpose exactly.

Then I realized how much more delicious it would be if that was a farm world instead of a playing world. It would be a "vacation" to paranoia for high ranking Vaylen, and a wonderful training ground for hosts for those serving in a finger. After all, who better to hull for infiltration than an individual whose spent their whole life hunting down odd clues and tracking the lines of power?

From there it occurred to me that there are probably millions of variations, ranging in "usefulness", in order to create a rich tapestry of human life for the worm to try and crawl into. I imagine a number of them are regretful that the Iron Empires must be entirely dominated. After all, how wonderful to experience total terror and defeat, and then fully awaken and realize that it has become absolute triumph.

[cmoeller]

The vaylen are organized into a few overarching clan lineages as outlined in the book, but each of those is composed of countless smaller off-shoots, some wealthy, some struggling, some falling into the great unwashed masses. There are two basic types of these (sub) clans... those that are established, and those that are hungry to become established. It's the latter that fuel the invasions into human space. Theoretically, there will come a day when there are no independent human worlds left. How Vaylen culture will cope, nobody knows. But that's a long way off, and for now, there are more human worlds than even the humans know of (the Void is composed of millions of human worlds that have fallen out of contact with the Iron Empires).

The Vaylen are a more unified power than the human empires, but that doesn't mean there isn't very polite, very serious jockeying for position. That said, unlike the humans, the Vaylen will only very rarely turn on their own openly. There are hard-wired reactions to treachery. If a clan steps too far out of line, unless it is very lucky, it will be stripped of its holdings by common action, and its line exterminated. Outright warfare between Vaylen is almost unheard of. Assassination and intrigue (the subtler forms of warfare) are more commmon.

And Tim, you're right, there are any number of possiblities for the Vaylen farm worlds in the interior. In the fairly recent past there was a huge human crusade into Vaylen space (of course it fell apart almost before it had begun), but I wonder what sorts of horrors they discovered the farther into Vaylen space they plunged?

-Chris

[buzz]

The majority of conquered worlds deep inside Vaylen space are garden worlds, where only the governing powers are Vaylen, and the humans are left to develop as naturally as possible.
The Clonus Horror/The Island, Vaylen style!

[buzz]

(the Void is composed of millions of human worlds that have fallen out of contact with the Iron Empires)
Nice! 8)

[Franz]

Some musings about Vaylen infection long term tactics...
Well, if I were an infesting, brain-burrowing ArchWorm dealing with a recently conquered planet, I would probably hull almost everybody (certainly anybody with an education). This would make a lot of clansmen and allies happy.
Then I would demand of the millions of recently sentient Lucky To Be Human Vaylen parvenus to breed like rabbits as a quick, "painless" manner of payment. This would create a new generation of humans, totally oblivious of the previous culture, and ready to be molded in your typical alien garden world with the aid of some crafty social engineering...

[zabieru]

Mm, but you don't want them ignorant of previous culture. That would be like genetically engineering tomatoes that don't taste like anything, then breeding for taste. Why not just start with the already rich texture of the previous culture and build from there?

Hulling most of the conquered generation makes sense, though, and is probably what happens in the case of a full hot-war conquest. You just raise the next generation by relying heavily on the host's memories of the world's old culture, edited where necessary to prevent rebellion.

[cmoeller]

Different clans will have different priorities and strategies for how to "raise humans". Ultimately, the Vaylen try to be as hands-off as possible. They are painfully aware of the limits of their social engineering skills. They know they aren't human, and can't raise children as successfully as human parents. I imagine they wrecked a lot of worlds before they learned that nature worked best.

Zaieru's comment about the genetically engineered tomatoes is spot on.

-Chris

[buzz]

I'd love to see the story of one of those wrecked worlds.