Several Human Lifepath Questions

[Lxndr]

This is part 1: Peasant through Noble. Part 2: Noble Court through (???) will be posted later.

1. The Pilgrim in the Peasant Setting cannot go to the Religious Sub-Setting. Is this on purpose? Other Pilgrims can.

2. Is "Almanac" from the Peasant Farmer a skill, or (as I think) a Trait that lost its star? (Same for Ills and Ails and the Peasant Midwife)

3. It's kind of weird that one can be a Woodcutter for five years and not be required to take Treecutting as a skill. Why was it set up that way?

4. Look at the Villager Lifepaths of Pilgrim and Vintner. Both of them have a Lead into the Villager setting, but... they're both IN the Villager setting. What did you mean there?

5. General comment: it's odd that there's so FEW paths to the Outcast Sub-Setting. I guess this is where "if it's in the story, you can do it" comes in, but it's still kinda odd that extenuating circumstances and GM's permission are necessary for a Shopkeeper to become a Beggar, but a Merchant can just sort of waltz right in.

6. The following city Lifepaths have a Lead of "City": Pilgrim, Tax-Collector, Tailor. Same question as #4.

7. Engraver in City gets +1 Ag. I know about the +1 Mean and the +1 Bored, and how they're really LP Traits, but +1 Ag is a bonus to a particular stat. Is that a purposeful exception, or a leftover? If it is a leftover, what should it be? Similarly with the City Priest - +1 Faith? Why him and no other religious LP?

8. Some skills that don't have descriptions are confusing me: Numbers (Training from City->Criminal), Omen (Training from Peasant->Midwife), Waterworks (from City->Plumber, as opposed to Plumbing). What do these DO?

9. Cutpurse doesn't seem to have an actual skill for the picking of pockets (or the cutting of purses, as the case may be). If it were YOUR game and you had a Cutpurse who wanted to ply his "trade", how would you do it?

10. Why is there a Journeyman Craftsman in the City setting, but not a Master Craftsman or an Apprentice? And is the City Journeyman supposed to be more broad? (i.e. able to choose from all 5 skills instead of a "choose 1"?)

11. Why can City Wives and Peasant Wives both go down the Religious Lead easily, but Village Wives get shut out?

12. Nobles can be Sorcerer's Apprentices, but need to leave the Noble life to actually act as a Sorcerer? Okay, I can buy that. But why can't they become a Court Sorcerer? Just a thought.

[Kublai]

These are all very good points and need to be addressed in a future edition - presumably the same edition that will present the new Artha, Wound, and Armor Systems.

There are some that I can answer, I think.


8. Some skills that don't have descriptions are confusing me: Numbers (Training from City->Criminal), Omen (Training from Peasant->Midwife), Waterworks (from City->Plumber, as opposed to Plumbing). What do these DO?

I am playing a character right now that uses Numbers Training. I am taking the Italian guy who hires Leon in the movie THE PROFESSIONAL as my inspiration. "It's all in my head, no need for a bank, accountants, or books. It's safer this way." It's allowing my character (a bar owner) to keep the profits comin' in from his side businesses (illegal, of course) without having to actually keep track of the numbers. Just how well can be figured out with a Perception test, if necessary. It should be a FoRK for Accounting and can add dice during a Resource test (new mechanic!).

Omen Training should be the ability to see omens in nature and interpret them. Characters with this training are allowed to make Perception tests to read the omens around him. A bird flying North, a fish jumping out of water, or a one-legged man can all mean something. It's sort of like Astrology in this sense, except is has little bearing on the dice, though it greatly enhances roleplaying.

As for Waterworks, I have no idea as how this could differ from Plumbing. Perhaps the ability to travel within the pipes and not get lost? :?


9. Cutpurse doesn't seem to have an actual skill for the picking of pockets (or the cutting of purses, as the case may be). If it were YOUR game and you had a Cutpurse who wanted to ply his "trade", how would you do it?

I think it's safe to use the Sleight of Hand skill for Pickpocketing or Cutting purses. In fact, Abzu recently expounded upon this very subject and was certain that Sleight of Hand was the right skill for these criminal deeds. That said, I say that we add Sleight of Hand to the Cutpurse LP, if it's not there already.

(p.s. - where were you when we were editing this damn book?!! :wink: )

[Lxndr]

Okay, having gone through the rest, a few more questons jump out:

Thanks for the answers so far!
----------

1. Is there any difference between the Page, Squire, Student, Young Lady, or Knight LPs in the Noble setting vs. the Noble Court setting? Why are they duplicated - wouldn't it just make more sense to have Nobles Lead into the Court to take those paths, and back again? And what is the point of the duplicate Young Lady in the Noble Court Sub-Setting, since there is no chance any character could take it?

2. With Chronicler, is it "pick one of the four" Traits? Or "pick one of the latter two, plus get the first two"?

3. Is "Court Gossip" under Servant in the Court a skill (Court-Gossip-wise?) or is it a Trait that has lost its star? Same with "Veneer of Obedience" for the Cabin Boy?

4. Child-rearing is sometimes labeled a Training Skill and sometimes not. Which is it? (And Spanking, Ear-pulling and Spitting are Training Skills?!)

5. Can I take the Advisor to the Court LP multiple times in a row, and get a Trait Point each time? I'm assuming no... but there's nothing specifically against it, and something inside me really wants to say that they should get more than 1. House rule: 1 Trait Point for every 10 years of service?

6. Is there no job for Whitesmithing? You have this skill all ready and rearing to go, but no Lifepath that'll learn it? Is it just something people learned as a hobby?

7. The Journeyman in the Professional Soldier Sub-Setting has leads to "Villager, Peasant, Villager." That's two Villagers. In addition, it has a skill called "Practical". Is that another Trait that's lost its star? Okay, and Apprentice Craftsman seems to be an incredibly variable position. Under Villager, the apprentice has to choose one of five skills, plus Mending. Under the military, the Apprentice can choose ANY of the five skills, even opening all of them... but doesn't get Mending? This is just kinda odd to me, so I thought I'd mention it.

8. Is all the repetition in "Galley Slave" part of the joke?

9. If there's no pickpocketing skill, why do urchins have "Pick the Pocket" as a skill? And why do they get it, and not cutpurses?

[Trayer]

5. Can I take the Advisor to the Court LP multiple times in a row, and get a Trait Point each time? I'm assuming no... but there's nothing specifically against it, and something inside me really wants to say that they should get more than 1. House rule: 1 Trait Point for every 10 years of service?


You may take it as many times as you like, but after the second time you no longer gain the perks (i.e. trait points, skill points, etc.) However the Advisor acumulates these for every year he is in court. Most people should just be warned that this LP really needs to be fleshed out in the story.


8. Is all the repetition in "Galley Slave" part of the joke?


Yep. And I found it rather amusing the first time I picked up the book :)

-CMC

[Kublai]

Yowza! All your points are valid once again.



1. Is there any difference between the Page, Squire, Student, Young Lady, or Knight LPs in the Noble setting vs. the Noble Court setting? Why are they duplicated - wouldn't it just make more sense to have Nobles Lead into the Court to take those paths, and back again? And what is the point of the duplicate Young Lady in the Noble Court Sub-Setting, since there is no chance any character could take it?


My only thought here is that there is the possibility for non-nobles to become part of the Noble Court.


3. Is "Court Gossip" under Servant in the Court a skill (Court-Gossip-wise?) or is it a Trait that has lost its star? Same with "Veneer of Obedience" for the Cabin Boy?

I say treat Court-Gossip as a Wise and Veneer as a trait.


4. Child-rearing is sometimes labeled a Training Skill and sometimes not. Which is it? (And Spanking, Ear-pulling and Spitting are Training Skills?!)

Dunno... whatever, I suppose. Even though it should be consistent, I think Abzu did not think it was going to get enough "game time" to be worth any thought. Last night, a new player took the Village Wife LP and I had here take it as a skill and not a training.


5. Can I take the Advisor to the Court LP multiple times in a row, and get a Trait Point each time? I'm assuming no... but there's nothing specifically against it, and something inside me really wants to say that they should get more than 1. House rule: 1 Trait Point for every 10 years of service?

Somewhere in the character burner are specific rules for taking a LP more than once. Maybe it's called "Diminishing Returns" or something?


6. Is there no job for Whitesmithing? You have this skill all ready and rearing to go, but no Lifepath that'll learn it? Is it just something people learned as a hobby?

The Jeweler doesn't get this? Obviously a oversight, if true. I can think of another skill that's impossible to get via LPs - Throwing! :evil:


7. In addition, it has a skill called "Practical". Is that another Trait that's lost its star?

Practical is a Trait. Abzu has to answer the rest of this question.


8. Is all the repetition in "Galley Slave" part of the joke?

It's totally a joke, and a bad one a that. I didn't get it the first time and demanded it be removed because it was "stupid." Yeah, that was probably the wrong way for me to put it. :oops:


9. If there's no pickpocketing skill, why do urchins have "Pick the Pocket" as a skill? And why do they get it, and not cutpurses?

You can take it several ways, I suppose: Treat it as a skill - Sleight of Hand; Treat it as an instinct; or interpret it as a trait somehow - maybe kleptomaniac?

As for the Cutpurse not having the Sleight of Hand skill, I think we covered that earlier in the thread. Cutpurse really oughta have access to this skill!

[Lxndr]

Thanks for the answers. Here's my answer. :)


My only thought here is that there is the possibility for non-nobles to become part of the Noble Court.

But... well, my suggestion is to get rid of the ones in "Noble" and ONLY keep the ones in Noble Court. Except for Young Lady (which, as I mentioned earlier, is IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE, even someone Born Noble, to take in the Noble Court).


I say treat Court-Gossip as a Wise and Veneer as a trait.

That's what I did. Glad to see I did it right.


Somewhere in the character burner are specific rules for taking a LP more than once. Maybe it's called "Diminishing Returns" or something?

Haven't been able to find it yet.


The Jeweler doesn't get this? Obviously a oversight, if true. I can think of another skill that's impossible to get via LPs - Throwing!

The Jeweler does not get it. (The Jeweler gets "Jewelry", i.e. Jewelcraft, but not Whitesmith). And there is one LP that gives Throwing - Court Jester. Look it up!

[Trayer]

It's on page 39 of the Burner. First paragraph.


-CMC

[Lxndr]

It's on page 39 of the Burner. First paragraph.

Thanks! Was wondering about that.

Now for answers to the rest of my questions ;)

[luke]

This is part 1: Peasant through Noble. Part 2: Noble Court through (???) will be posted later.

1. The Pilgrim in the Peasant Setting cannot go to the Religious Sub-Setting. Is this on purpose? Other Pilgrims can.

Yes. Take Pilgrim twice to get to the Religious setting, you peasant: Peasant Pilgrim to City Pilgrim to Religious whatever. Pilgrimage was not an entry point into the clergy. In fact, I think the church pretty much hated pilgrims (though they encouraged pilgrimage. Go figure.) But I guess if you hang around enough they'll let you in. Also, City and Village Pilgrims are considered to be a bit better off than Peasants. Better able to buy into their benefice.


2. Is "Almanac" from the Peasant Farmer a skill, or (as I think) a Trait that lost its star? (Same for Ills and Ails and the Peasant Midwife)
I will offer my sincerest apologies in this matter once. I am rreeaallllyy sorry about this confusion. Though unsaid, consider that sentiment attached to all future matters regarding the trait/skill confusion. As you can see from my recent layout experiments, this problem will be corrected in the future.

Alamanac is a trait.

Ills and Ails is a trait.


3. It's kind of weird that one can be a Woodcutter for five years and not be required to take Treecutting as a skill. Why was it set up that way?

You can be a woodcutter and just gather fallen wood in the forest and trim it for sale as firewood. Cf Rashomon.



4. Look at the Villager Lifepaths of Pilgrim and Vintner. Both of them have a Lead into the Villager setting, but... they're both IN the Villager setting. What did you mean there?

Ooops. What I meant was they are booth required to take Ratcatcher as their next LP. No that's not it. How about a Lead to City-Dweller?


5. General comment: it's odd that there's so FEW paths to the Outcast Sub-Setting. I guess this is where "if it's in the story, you can do it" comes in, but it's still kinda odd that extenuating circumstances and GM's permission are necessary for a Shopkeeper to become a Beggar, but a Merchant can just sort of waltz right in.

If you find this flawed, perhaps in your world it is easier to fall from grace straight to living hell. I guess I am too much of an optimist, enforcing a "you get a second chance/you've got to do worse than that" philosophy in this regard. (except in the case of LPs i personally hate. Cf Merchant.) However, the system will not break and does not care if you allow the Outcast lead from every LP. You'll just have a world full of scummies!


6. The following city Lifepaths have a Lead of "City": Pilgrim, Tax-Collector, Tailor. Same question as #4.

Shit. Perhaps Villager? I have no idea. It's an editing mistake. Blame Pete. It was his job to edit. Check the credits.


7. Engraver in City gets +1 Ag. I know about the +1 Mean and the +1 Bored, and how they're really LP Traits, but +1 Ag is a bonus to a particular stat. Is that a purposeful exception, or a leftover? If it is a leftover, what should it be? Similarly with the City Priest - +1 Faith? Why him and no other religious LP?

See the second half of answer 6.

Also,

Any + Stat is really just +1 P.

Hey, are you knocking a bonus to your starting Faith? Jeez, it's tough working miracles amongst the horrors of medieval urban life. Give a priest a break!


8. Some skills that don't have descriptions are confusing me: Numbers (Training from City->Criminal), Omen (Training from Peasant->Midwife), Waterworks (from City->Plumber, as opposed to Plumbing). What do these DO?

Numbers Training: What Pete said.

Omen Training: We let it be used like Astrology. Except it rolls Perception to see weird signs around you. Also allows the wacky FoRK die like Astrology. Don't ask me why it's not just gypsy Astrology. See the second half of answer 6.

Waterworks=joke. Plumbers all went crazy, maybe some cried a lot; Maybe some built weird pipe constructs to carry water to the sky. I dunno.

More importantly, though. What do YOU think these skills do?


9. Cutpurse doesn't seem to have an actual skill for the picking of pockets (or the cutting of purses, as the case may be). If it were YOUR game and you had a Cutpurse who wanted to ply his "trade", how would you do it?

This was a poorly researched judgement call. At the time I felt that cutpurses were skillless scum who were merely inconscipuously at the right place at the right time.

I've recently come upon in my research a description of the cutpurse and pickpocket trade. I now firmly believe that these types of LPs should grant Sleight of Hand (and one additional skill point to use it). It should be an optional skill, not required. (You might be a cutpurse lookout or accomplice, not the actual thief).


10. Why is there a Journeyman Craftsman in the City setting, but not a Master Craftsman or an Apprentice? And is the City Journeyman supposed to be more broad? (i.e. able to choose from all 5 skills instead of a "choose 1"?)

10a: I don't know. I had a reason once, but now cannot remember it. Something about training the boys in the towns and sending them to the city to earn their spurs (so to speak).

10b: Yes.


11. Why can City Wives and Peasant Wives both go down the Religious Lead easily, but Village Wives get shut out?

Be a Peasant or City Wife if you want to jump to Religious.

To answer your actual question, I think the philosophy behind this decision was (drum roll please): I don't think Village Wives have it so bad. Brilliant, huh? Hey, they can't all be winners!


12. Nobles can be Sorcerer's Apprentices, but need to leave the Noble life to actually act as a Sorcerer? Okay, I can buy that. But why can't they become a Court Sorcerer? Just a thought.

Yes. In the philosophy/hierarchy of this system (and dare I say, setting?) Court Sorcerer is a "higher" position than Sorcerer. Nobles don't want any old shlub Harry Potter wannabe as their apprentice. They want a bonafide storm-calming, mind-bending, fire-summoning badass. So do your time, pay your dues and then take the necessary leads.

Sheesh, like Sorcerer is such a bad lifepath to take!

More to follow.

BTW, these are all valid points and questions. Consider yourself validated, stamped, signed and approved. Your hired for editing the next edition. Pete, you're fired. ("Hired"=money!)

-L

Ps sorry for the delay in response time, convention got in the way.

[luke]

Okay, having gone through the rest, a few more questons jump out:

Thanks for the answers so far!
----------

1. Is there any difference between the Page, Squire, Student, Young Lady, or Knight LPs in the Noble setting vs. the Noble Court setting? Why are they duplicated - wouldn't it just make more sense to have Nobles Lead into the Court to take those paths, and back again? And what is the point of the duplicate Young Lady in the Noble Court Sub-Setting, since there is no chance any character could take it?

To represent the culture of court and patronage. Also, to represent that a "commoner" could rise in station. DO NOT eliminate these. Noble born children were sent to other courts to serve other masters and gain other opportunities. Wealthy peasants rose up from the ranks and bought their station through the Noble courts.

The Noble setting is for noble born or those who have passed through the rigors of the court. Though it's not "our period," I highly recommend Barbara Tuchman's essay on english nobility in her book, The Proud Tower. Very enlightening to the philosophy of hereditary class (that is reflected in this rules).



2. With Chronicler, is it "pick one of the four" Traits? Or "pick one of the latter two, plus get the first two"?

A list containing "or" (in BW) always indicates: choose one from the list. not choose between the last two.


3. Is "Court Gossip" under Servant in the Court a skill (Court-Gossip-wise?) or is it a Trait that has lost its star? Same with "Veneer of Obedience" for the Cabin Boy?

Court Gossip should be treated as a wise.

Veneer is a trait if I've ever heard of one.

What do you want them to do?


4. Child-rearing is sometimes labeled a Training Skill and sometimes not. Which is it? (And Spanking, Ear-pulling and Spitting are Training Skills?!)

Instances like this finely illustrate why Pete got fired. Let that be warning and lesson to all of you who edit your friend's horribly written 170,000 word rpg manuscript for free! Watch out, or you'll lose your privileges!

Anyway. Whacky, isn't? this topsy turvy world of Burning Wheel. Before I answer your question and continue to incriminate myself, can I ask you a question? How many of your players have evinced interest in the Governess and Wet Nurse lifepaths?


5. Can I take the Advisor to the Court LP multiple times in a row, and get a Trait Point each time? I'm assuming no... but there's nothing specifically against it, and something inside me really wants to say that they should get more than 1. House rule: 1 Trait Point for every 10 years of service?


What Matt/Trayer said.


6. Is there no job for Whitesmithing? You have this skill all ready and rearing to go, but no Lifepath that'll learn it? Is it just something people learned as a hobby?

FUCK! Erm...

Look a baby wolf!
::whips out, while no one is looking, a...::

New lifepath in the Lifepaths of Man, City-Dweller Setting:

Whitesmith
Trait - ; Eye for Detail*, Steady Hand*.
Stat -
Resources 20
Time 6 yrs
Skills: 5 pts: Whitesmithing, Silver-wise, Appraisal.
Leads: Outcast, Court, Outcast, Servitude, Seafaring (Ok, i'm kidding about everything after the second Outcast. ;) )

tah dah!


7. The Journeyman in the Professional Soldier Sub-Setting has leads to "Villager, Peasant, Villager." That's two Villagers. In addition, it has a skill called "Practical". Is that another Trait that's lost its star? Okay, and Apprentice Craftsman seems to be an incredibly variable position. Under Villager, the apprentice has to choose one of five skills, plus Mending. Under the military, the Apprentice can choose ANY of the five skills, even opening all of them... but doesn't get Mending? This is just kinda odd to me, so I thought I'd mention it.


Apprentices had many demands put on them in different situations. If you want to be an apprentice and gain some of those benefits, choose the appropriate LP.

Practical is a trait. Sheesh.


8. Is all the repetition in "Galley Slave" part of the joke?

Stroke! Stroke! Stroke! Ye lazy dogs! Faster! Stroke! Stroke! Stroke!

Being a Galley Slave is no joke. But what Trayer/Matt said is fine by me.


9. If there's no pickpocketing skill, why do urchins have "Pick the Pocket" as a skill? And why do they get it, and not cutpurses?

The line between beggars and pickpockets was very slim. I went to asia and all the pickpockets I encountered were little children/beggars. Therefore we get a little biased slice of life in the lifepaths! Anyway, see my answer about Cutpurses in the previous post.

Thanks again for the questions, queries and answers. I do appreciate it.

-L

[ronnieB]

[quote]6. Is there no job for Whitesmithing? You have this skill all ready and rearing to go, but no Lifepath that'll learn it? Is it just something people learned as a hobby?

FUCK! Erm...

Look a baby wolf!
::whips out, while no one is looking, a...::

New lifepath in the Lifepaths of Man, City-Dweller Setting:

Whitesmith
Trait - ; Eye for Detail*, Steady Hand*.
Stat -
Resources 20
Time 6 yrs
Skills: 5 pts: Whitesmithing, Silver-wise, Appraisal.
Leads: Outcast, Court, Outcast, Servitude, Seafaring (Ok, i'm kidding about everything after the second Outcast. ;) )

tah dah!



this reminds me, would someone be so kind as to compile a PDF file of all those errata (and just errata) so that i could print it in an orderd form? i'll probubly do it myself, but i won't have much free time 'till may...

[Lxndr]

Hey Luke - no worries on the time delay. I didn't realize you were at a convention. Thanks for all the answers. A few comments:


You can be a woodcutter and just gather fallen wood in the forest and trim it for sale as firewood. Cf Rashomon.

Who? Anyway, I guess I can see your point.


If you find this flawed, perhaps in your world it is easier to fall from grace straight to living hell. However, the system will not break and does not care if you allow the Outcast lead from every LP.

Very good. Because I was, quite seriously, considering (for my setting anyway) just saying "anyone can lead into Outcast at any time." Because, well, it just makes sense to me. Disaster can strike at ANY time.


Hey, are you knocking a bonus to your starting Faith? Jeez, it's tough working miracles amongst the horrors of medieval urban life. Give a priest a break!

I never KNOCK bonuses. I just QUESTION them. ;) Especially after the +1 Mean, +1 Bored "debacle."


More importantly, though. What do YOU think these skills do?

I had no idea what the skills did (well, maybe a vague idea about Omen Training), which is why I asked. I do want to ask: why do Burning Wheel plumbers all go crazy? Is that a historical reference, or a Luke-ism?


I had a reason once, but now cannot remember it. Something about training the boys in the towns and sending them to the city to earn their spurs (so to speak).

Hrm. I guess I can buy that. So any QUALITY stuff (i.e. masterwork), cities import from the villages?


Sheesh, like Sorcerer is such a bad lifepath to take!

Oh, it's NOT a bad lifepath to take, really. I love it, frankly. It's just "lead out to city, lead back into noble court" that doesn't quite feel right to me. I dunno.


To represent the culture of court and patronage. Also, to represent that a "commoner" could rise in station. DO NOT eliminate these.

My suggestion/musing was to eliminate the Page, Squire, Student and Knight LPs from the Noble setting, not the Noble Court sub-Setting. Thus nobles would have to Lead into the Court, period, to reach those.

But Young Lady is the really bizarre one in the Noble Court sub-Setting, the one that nobody can ever take, ever, and is thus the one I wouldn't really see any problem eliminating from the Court. Here, let me illustrate:

The "born" lifepaths with leads into Noble are City-Born, and Born Noble. Those Born Noble end at 8 years old. City-Born finish up the LP at 12 y.o. Add one year for the lead, and they're 9 and 13 respectively when starting the Young Lady (Noble Court) lifepath.

Now, Young Lady (besides the gender requirements) has only one requirement: you must be 8 years old when you start the lifepath, and it will age you from 8 to 18. How, exactly, does that work when the youngest you can be by the time you arrive in the Court is 9?


Before I answer your question and continue to incriminate myself, can I ask you a question? How many of your players have evinced interest in the Governess and Wet Nurse lifepaths?

None so far. I'm just one of them annoying completists. And as you know, my recent work has made me go through every single LP with a coarse-toothed comb (the fine-toothed comb is coming later, when I alter them).


Look a baby wolf!

Oh my god, what a cute wolf! Hey, where'd that lifepath come from?!

(And, out of curiousity, are there any other "official new" lifepaths that I should add to my list? Also, does Whitesmith require Apprentice something-or-other, or can you just waltz right into it?)

[Lxndr]

Oh, and I have one more question:

What's the Sailor (Professional Soldier) in relation to the Sailor (Seafaring)? The former is somewhat obviously not a part of any navy, since there's no other seafaring ranks... ...so what is it? I understand the Village and Peasant Sailors, but not this difference.

[luke]

Oh, and I have one more question:

What's the Sailor (Professional Soldier) in relation to the Sailor (Seafaring)? The former is somewhat obviously not a part of any navy, since there's no other seafaring ranks... ...so what is it? I understand the Village and Peasant Sailors, but not this difference.

The guys who sailed the ships that the soldiers, legionaires, knights hospitalers, etc rode on.

-L

[luke]

But Young Lady is the really bizarre one in the Noble Court sub-Setting, the one that nobody can ever take, ever, and is thus the one I wouldn't really see any problem eliminating from the Court. Here, let me illustrate:

The "born" lifepaths with leads into Noble are City-Born, and Born Noble. Those Born Noble end at 8 years old. City-Born finish up the LP at 12 y.o. Add one year for the lead, and they're 9 and 13 respectively when starting the Young Lady (Noble Court) lifepath.

Now, Young Lady (besides the gender requirements) has only one requirement: you must be 8 years old when you start the lifepath, and it will age you from 8 to 18. How, exactly, does that work when the youngest you can be by the time you arrive in the Court is 9?

what are you talking about? It says pretty clearly in the notes, the character must be 8-18 when taking this path. That's when you can start it. That's what take means in our parlance, doesn't it?

But it's not the last LP you can take, either. You just have to choose it for your character when she would fall into that age range.

-L

[Lxndr]

It says it can only be taken when the character "would be aged 8 to 18." The phrasing of the verb ("would be" aged) suggests (to me at least, although I asked a couple other people to read it and see if they interpreted it the same way, and they did) that it can only be taken "when the character, who must be 8 years old, would be aged to an 18 year old at the end of this lifepath" (an assumption supported by the length of Young Lady, as well as the starting age of Born Noble).

So it's "you may only take it between the ages of 8 and 18" then? That certainly takes a load off my back and makes Young Lady a much more open LP. I'd suggest changing the wording whenever the next edition is written, though, 'cause I (obviously) didn't interpret it correctly, and I'd be surprised if I was the only one. :oops: