The polearm hook

[Yagathai]

So I was crunching some numbers the other day with the character that I play in Eruditus' game, and I can't think of a single reason that I would ever want to use the hook on the polearm that the character uses (a lochaber axe, more or less) to pull a rider from his saddle, at least not with Abzu's rules as they stand. Mechanically speaking, it would always make more sense for me to take a swipe at the horse. Even if the horse has barding, I'd take a called shot to the legs over trying to Get Inside any day.

Understand that with a B7 power and B7 skill, I could almost certainly pull most average opponents off of their horses, but why should I bother when I'm very likely to get a... what, B10 or B11 (Mark) on the horse without making myself vulnerable for a round trying to Get Inside? Sure, it's not quite a MW on a war mount, but chances are very good that I'll unseat the rider after doing that kind of wound to the horse's legs, and even if I don't there's going to be a Steel check for the animal in there somewhere, and it's going to be crippled whether or not it succeeds. And if I get a Superb hit, it's all over but the cryin'...

I suppose if I were interested in 'salvaging' the horse post-battle it would make sense to try to unseat my opponent. Otherwise, why bother?

[ronnieB]

Here’s a thought: some horse riding tribes throughout history treated their horses with reverence, so to them injuring a horse just to get the rider off would be a sin.
Also about salvaging, it's obvious from the new mount burner prices that horses are not disposable
Last thought, adding a hook to a pole is probably the most cost effective strategy to remove a rider as many poor highwaymen can tell ;-)

[Trayer]

I think that just the head of the pole arm should be treated as "on the inside." You roll skill vs their Nat. Defences and if you win the head of your pole arm is sticking to them like glue with you a distance away. Thus leaving the weilder at a distance and able to use the hook part of his weapon without risking the weilder. Perhaps have an Ob penalty to keeping just the head of the weapon inside your opponent.

-CMC

Go Buli!

[luke]

So I was crunching some numbers the other day with the character that I play in Eruditus' game, and I can't think of a single reason that I would ever want to use the hook on the polearm that the character uses (a lochaber axe, more or less) to pull a rider from his saddle, at least not with Abzu's rules as they stand. Mechanically speaking, it would always make more sense for me to take a swipe at the horse. Even if the horse has barding, I'd take a called shot to the legs over trying to Get Inside any day.

Understand that with a B7 power and B7 skill, I could almost certainly pull most average opponents off of their horses, but why should I bother when I'm very likely to get a... what, B10 or B11 (Mark) on the horse without making myself vulnerable for a round trying to Get Inside? Sure, it's not quite a MW on a war mount, but chances are very good that I'll unseat the rider after doing that kind of wound to the horse's legs, and even if I don't there's going to be a Steel check for the animal in there somewhere, and it's going to be crippled whether or not it succeeds. And if I get a Superb hit, it's all over but the cryin'...

I suppose if I were interested in 'salvaging' the horse post-battle it would make sense to try to unseat my opponent. Otherwise, why bother?

Dear Mr Powergamer,

The hearts of those here at Burning Wheel Headquarters are breaking with the tremendous sympathy we have for your situation. How terribly hard it must be to be Conan-strong and monstrously skilled! Oh the trials and tribulations of life! Indeed, why bother carrying on at all? What's the point when the world will simply wilt under the devastating might of your Mark result hit? In fact, what is the point of existence at all if it doesn't serve you? I mean, really? Why do we have peasants or merchants or mercenaries at all? They can't kill a horse with a flex their muscles and a flick of the wrist, so why do they even exist? With their tools, and implements, struggling, trying to best each other. Frankly, we think it's disgusting. And had we a crown, we would place it firmly on your head. And then we would put you on a horse. And then we would send 10 peasants after you with bill-hooks and laugh as they all helped each other pull you off the horse. Sure, one would fall to your weeping blade, but 9 more would scrabble greedily for your end. And we would giggle as they chopped you to bits and then took your horse and sold it and used the money to buy a tavern and name it "The Bill and Hook."

:twisted:

[Trayer]

Is it me or does this seem to be borderline here? I know the theme of the game is Burning, but this seems to be a little unnecessary. Especially considering the man fights trolls for a living! He has to be strong (and immensly so at that) or he dies!


-CMC

[eruditus]

Uh, I'm with abzu on this one.

Sorry but this seems like a no brainer... why pull someone off their horse rather than strike the animal? I don't think anyone would argue that beating a horse in the knees will always be way easier than actually pulling a man from his saddle. So the real question for yagathai would be "why would anyone do this?" I don't think it has anything to do with numbers. Its a decision to be made like all roleplaying decisions.


This is like asking "why would I want to put my opponant in a bear hug when I could plug him in the head."

[eruditus]

Little note... although it was not used on a horse Buli used the hook and pull technique quite effectively this past session. With the help of the resident martial artist he was able to pull a giant scorpion off the ceiling it was clinging to (pony sized).
And against afroementioned trolls on their warmounts, I think your better off pulling the troll down cause a polearm to the legs will just piss off the Khadet warmounts... and well, that's not a pleasant option.

[Yagathai]

Eru: Yeah, well, I actually wanted to use the damn thing after blowing the RP to buy it. ;)

Abzu: Call me whatever names you want, but it wasn't I that constructed the training system such that the easiest stat to raise is power, and some of the easiest skills to raise are weapon skills. If you only have a limited amount of training time, and you want to make the most of it, and you're playing the party tank, why would you do anything else?

I mean sure, I'd like to learn stuff like Firebuilding, but apparently it takes years in BW to learn what the Boy Scouts teach you in a couple of weeks. =Þ

[Blackberry]

I just purchsed the game, haven't played it yet or even finished reading it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that whatever skills you use a lot will be the ones that go up the fastest.

If you find that these are always combat skills, talk to your GM. :wink: Or have your character find other ways out of situations.

It's not the system's fault.

[mike_ravenwood]

on a similar but related note, I decided to limit my players starting skills to 3 points per skill. I was getting a little annoyed with 3 life path characters with B6 sword and crap other skills. They even failed to be good powergamers cuz they didn't by ANY other combat skills to FORK. nothing like 19 year old master swords men who don't know how to wield an axe or ride, or read. sometimes they get it and then I just don't klnow... :D