Burning Gundam

[Storn]

I just finished the 50 ep epic of Gundam Seed. At first, the highly stylized, almost sharply feminine character design, soured the series. But I found myself rooting for the characters and really liking the "world setting" of Gundam.

Gundam and I go way back. I was given a cell book of the original TV series by a Japanese Exchange student of my grandfather in 1981. This was before Super dimensional Macross came to our shores as Robotech, which started playing here in 1984. That cell book was one of the defining epiphanies that set me on the road to being an artist myself.

So. Here I was digging all the different models of moble suits. The insanely nutty aerial combat of giant huminoid machines.

I had run Mekton waaay back in the day. It was fun in its own way, but I was the only one who was steeped in the genre at that point. Trying to explain what anime, mecha to people who had only seen GI joe was a tough sell. Now, it is much easier.

But I gots to thinking. Always a bad sign. Firefight and Burning Tech of Burning Empire *might* be a way of making cool mecha combat and tech, without devloving into overly detailed 3d combat rules.... or mind numbing detail on different mecha models. A mecha roleplaying game cannot have a wargame solution to combat, it takes too much time. Which is why Battletech has never really fielded a great roleplaying supplement, despite being a wonderfully rich setting and influential wargame. If 3 hours is spent on one combat in an evening, doesn't leave much room for role playing.

BE also has psychic powers, might be toned down for representing Gundam psychic abilities, which seems to be mostly in the very weak precog and an excuse to do martial arts with 500 ton machines.

Doesn't have to be Gundam either. I think Neon Genesis Evangelion has more Beliefs, Instincts and Traits smashing into each other than a Shakespeare tragedy (toungue in cheek here folks, I'm not comparing Shakespeare to an trippy anime).

But whaddya all think? Can BE do mecha combat that would be fun, fast and interesting via firefight? Can burning tech handle something as varied as a front line beefed up tank to a giant machine with laser swords, missles and beam weapons that can take out entire starship carriers with a shot?

[Count Zero]

I just finished the 50 ep epic of Gundam Seed. At first, the highly stylized, almost sharply feminine character design, soured the series. But I found myself rooting for the characters and really liking the "world setting" of Gundam.

Gundam and I go way back. I was given a cell book of the original TV series by a Japanese Exchange student of my grandfather in 1981. This was before Super dimensional Macross came to our shores as Robotech, which started playing here in 1984. That cell book was one of the defining epiphanies that set me on the road to being an artist myself.

So. Here I was digging all the different models of moble suits. The insanely nutty aerial combat of giant huminoid machines.

I had run Mekton waaay back in the day. It was fun in its own way, but I was the only one who was steeped in the genre at that point. Trying to explain what anime, mecha to people who had only seen GI joe was a tough sell. Now, it is much easier.

But I gots to thinking. Always a bad sign. Firefight and Burning Tech of Burning Empire *might* be a way of making cool mecha combat and tech, without devloving into overly detailed 3d combat rules.... or mind numbing detail on different mecha models. A mecha roleplaying game cannot have a wargame solution to combat, it takes too much time. Which is why Battletech has never really fielded a great roleplaying supplement, despite being a wonderfully rich setting and influential wargame. If 3 hours is spent on one combat in an evening, doesn't leave much room for role playing.

BE also has psychic powers, might be toned down for representing Gundam psychic abilities, which seems to be mostly in the very weak precog and an excuse to do martial arts with 500 ton machines.

Doesn't have to be Gundam either. I think Neon Genesis Evangelion has more Beliefs, Instincts and Traits smashing into each other than a Shakespeare tragedy (toungue in cheek here folks, I'm not comparing Shakespeare to an trippy anime).

But whaddya all think? Can BE do mecha combat that would be fun, fast and interesting via firefight? Can burning tech handle something as varied as a front line beefed up tank to a giant machine with laser swords, missles and beam weapons that can take out entire starship carriers with a shot?

While I am a huge fan of this system, I have to be honest. I don't know if you could quite pull off the cinematic style that is necessary. I would really recommend the Silhouette Core Rules for any mecha game. Jovian Chronicles done with the system and it is a Gundam-style game that is almost ready to go out of the "box". Check it out.

[skandall]

Instincts for Shinji:
#1 - Always whine about everything going on.
#2 - When the going gets, well going at all (tough or not) give up and see instinct #1.
#3 - The best way to pilot an Eva is to throw temper tantrums and see instinct #1.

I do own the entire series. Can't remember what I liked s much about it anymore. All I remember is that Eva combat was usually disappointing and a sure sign that Shinji would throw another fit.
---

Firefight seems perfect for massive mecha combats. Most of that stuff is just colour anyway. Once it's not, turn it into hard tech.

Other settings that I think BE would handle easily:
Star Wars
Battlestar Galactica
Firestorm (a CCG by Thirdworld Games involving Humans, super evil and enormous lizards called Muero, organic technology based myster race called Soven, and a race of Amazon Warrior Women known as the Dysori)
Hong Kong Action Movies

[tmerren]

Instincts for Shinji:
#1 - Always whine about everything going on.
#2 - When the going gets, well going at all (tough or not) give up and see instinct #1.
#3 - The best way to pilot an Eva is to throw temper tantrums and see instinct #1.

I do own the entire series. Can't remember what I liked s much about it anymore. All I remember is that Eva combat was usually disappointing and a sure sign that Shinji would throw another fit.
---

Firefight seems perfect for massive mecha combats. Most of that stuff is just colour anyway. Once it's not, turn it into hard tech.

Other settings that I think BE would handle easily:
Star Wars
Battlestar Galactica
Firestorm (a CCG by Thirdworld Games involving Humans, super evil and enormous lizards called Muero, organic technology based myster race called Soven, and a race of Amazon Warrior Women known as the Dysori)
Hong Kong Action Movies
Your thinking of Neon genesis Evangelion, which is very different from Gundam

[skandall]

Your thinking of Neon genesis Evangelion, which is very different from Gundam

I'm fully aware of that, but I believe that in the first post NGV was mentioned. Gundam would be a far better setting to play than NGV IMHO.

It's funny, I have wanted to play (not GM, which is extremely rare for me) Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles. Both games have very nice settings that I could get into. However, I wouldn't really agree that they're better for a cinematic style of game. Both games are essentially RPGs wrapped around full blown miniatures combat rules. Although damage is very cinematic but does require about three different rolls to determine a result (and there's no dots to fill in like Battletech). Again, they're great games, and Jovian Chronicles would be absolutely perfect for a Gundam style game, but I do think that BE offers a more cinematic experience.

With BE, players have more control over the events in the game. If you want to make a cool dodging maneuver and attack, the player can narrate it. The dodge can just be colour, it doesn't matter. Gundam Suits, like Iron, just give really high armor tolerances. Other features can remain colour until needed in game.

Anyway, any fan of Gundam would do well to check out Jovian Chronicles too, but BE will certainly do the trick if you like the system.

[MechaMan]

I am also a fan of the giant robot genre, and also play Mekton and JC.

The Lords-pilot and their Crucis implants to control their Iron, Anvil vehicles and Hammer ships and just too appealing not to apply to mecha. The trick is, how to define humanoid mecha in BE/BW terms...

Since so much of what mecha are is color, why not treat them as alternate versions of Avil and Hammer vehicles? space-only mecha could be based on assault shuttles, and ground-pounders as Attack Sleds?

[Storn]

I'm fully aware of that, but I believe that in the first post NGV was mentioned. Gundam would be a far better setting to play than NGV IMHO.

It's funny, I have wanted to play (not GM, which is extremely rare for me) Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles. Both games have very nice settings that I could get into. However, I wouldn't really agree that they're better for a cinematic style of game. Both games are essentially RPGs wrapped around full blown miniatures combat rules. Although damage is very cinematic but does require about three different rolls to determine a result (and there's no dots to fill in like Battletech). Again, they're great games, and Jovian Chronicles would be absolutely perfect for a Gundam style game, but I do think that BE offers a more cinematic experience.

With BE, players have more control over the events in the game. If you want to make a cool dodging maneuver and attack, the player can narrate it. The dodge can just be colour, it doesn't matter. Gundam Suits, like Iron, just give really high armor tolerances. Other features can remain colour until needed in game.

Anyway, any fan of Gundam would do well to check out Jovian Chronicles too, but BE will certainly do the trick if you like the system.

yeah, the other couple of comments as Mecha as "color" is why I was attracted to the Firefight idea. Jovian chronicles just seemed to have too much crunch for me at this point in my gaming career w/o the pay off.

But I know folks who love it. And I would certainly do JOvian Chronicles over something like Battletech.... just because the aesthetic is a bit more in line with my tastes.

I have no intention of trying to drift BE/BW any time soon towards a Gundum scenario. I've got a BW campaign starting up in a week. The characters are done, the situation is percolating... i'm really looking forward to it.

But I'm glad to just bat the idea of doing Gundam/mecha around a bit. Thanks.

[zipht]

the [...] comments as Mecha as "color" is why I was attracted to the Firefight idea. Jovian chronicles just seemed to have too much crunch for me at this point in my gaming career w/o the pay off.
[...] I would certainly do Jovian Chronicles over something like Battletech.... just because the aesthetic is a bit more in line with my tastes.

Funny thing I was thinking that BE would be great system to roleplay in the Battletech universe. All that is really needed is an abstracted infection mechanic to say a planetary invasion or some other kind of event.

Anyhow I too have no plans on working on this idea, I have a BE game shaping up.

I will have to check out Jovian chronicles I am liking the mini's.

[Anteruo]

Jovian Chronicles/Silcore is a great system for mecha. Storn, you mentioned its crunchiness. It is just a wee bit. It's a lot less than most of its direct competition but is *VERY* easy to learn and once play has begun, things really flow.

In fact, it's the game system that I use to introduce people to RPGs. Then I slowly seduce them with Burning Wheel and Burning Empires. lol

[Count Zero]

Funny thing I was thinking that BE would be great system to roleplay in the Battletech universe. All that is really needed is an abstracted infection mechanic to say a planetary invasion or some other kind of event.

That is really a good idea. I had never thought of that, but it works perfectly. You just need some Mechwarrior lifepaths with things like Disposessed and such.

[IronWhim]

While I am a huge fan of this system, I have to be honest. I don't know if you could quite pull off the cinematic style that is necessary. I would really recommend the Silhouette Core Rules for any mecha game. Jovian Chronicles done with the system and it is a Gundam-style game that is almost ready to go out of the "box". Check it out.

I would seriously recommend the Jovian Chronicle or Heavy Gear rules with modification rather than the actual Silhouette Core rules. The first two are beautifully executed, while the latter is incredibly badly edited, missing an entire equipment section (or at least rules for building equipment) as well as costs for character perks and flaws, etc. Too many glaring omissions by far for a science fiction game. If they'd do a second printing, they'd be in business, because the system is good, but the book is just plain bad.

I like DP9, and am a huge JC fan, but this feels rushed and incomplete. With the generally high quality coming from this company, I expected a lot better from them.

[blackpaladin]

...Other settings that I think BE would handle easily:

Star Wars
Battlestar Galactica...



Funny thing I was thinking that BE would be great system to role-play in the Battletech universe. All that is really needed is an abstracted infection mechanic to say a planetary invasion or some other kind of event...


I agree that these would be perfect settings for BE. In fact, while watching the last episode Battlestar (the boxing matches), I had re-occurring thoughts as to how I would do Battlestar in a BW/BE fashion. To this I would add that I could really enjoy the Warhammer 40K as RPG setting in BW/BE mechanics.

As I finish BE, I find my myself impressed with it to the point of wanting to add some of the meta-storytelling mechanics to other games. To this end, I've been wondering at the way in which I could make a BW/BE template over which I could lay another genre/setting that has not been "burned" yet. This may fly in the face of what Luke and company intended, but I'd really like to have some of the role-play meta-mechanics that they have developed for use in other RPG settings. A specific example would be zipht's comment above about a military take-over version of the infection mechanic. (On closer examination maybe it is the same framework as infection, but a different name.)

[Count Zero]

I would seriously recommend the Jovian Chronicle or Heavy Gear rules with modification rather than the actual Silhouette Core rules. The first two are beautifully executed, while the latter is incredibly badly edited, missing an entire equipment section (or at least rules for building equipment) as well as costs for character perks and flaws, etc. Too many glaring omissions by far for a science fiction game. If they'd do a second printing, they'd be in business, because the system is good, but the book is just plain bad..

Yeah, the original rulebook had that problem. The Hardback one doesn't though. If you decided to do Silhouette pick up the Silhoutte Core Rules Deluxe. The new Jovian Chronicles is a much better anime game than the original. It catches the anime spirit better than the original which is much more hard sci fi. The only glaring error in it is the Communcations ratings are missing from the vehicles.

[MechaMan]

(On closer examination maybe it is the same framework as infection, but a different name.)

In a Dune-esque setting, you could call it Kanly...