FoRKs and Stats

[Suicide King]

You can only FoRK skills into skills. That's the rule as it is written in the book, though that's directly contradicted on pg 240 of the BWR book. It suggests letting skills like streetwise be forked into speed during a chase, which makes perfect sense to me. Only the rules don't allow this.

Other things would also make sense to me, like allowing forest-wise and streetwise to be forked into stats during R&C in forests or cities, respectively. Or perhaps for Ugly Truth, Falsehood or Obscure History to be forked into an Avoid the Topic in a duel of wits?

So what to do?

I suggest a rule where you allow skills to be forked into stat tests where the beginners luck rule does not apply. Any test which is a pure stat roll can have a skill forked into it.

The reason I do not want to use linked tests are that linked tests are a pain in versus tests (as many of the above examples are) and that it's easier to just fork a skill in when it would clearly be an advantage to have better knowledge than the other.

What say you?

[donbaloo]

I'm pretty sure skills can Help or FoRK into Stats. Stats can't help or FoRK into skills though.

[Suicide King]

That's what I thought as well, but after reading this thread:
http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3262&page=2
And looking in the book I discovered what the rule says:
BWR pg. 40: When testing a skill, each related skill the character possesses can be used like help to add an additional die to the roll.

It's kind of an academic point, as I think most of us do allow what I suggest already, but it would be nice to establish under what conditions skills cannot be forked into stats then.

[donbaloo]

Hmmmm, that's interesting. Page 39 makes it clear that Skills can Help stats, and that's reasonable. I don't see why it would be unreasonable to Help yourself (FoRK) with related skills on your own stat tests. The emphasis on p. 40 certainly seems intended to steer you away from doing that though. I don't know...unless one of the elders pipes up and says "NO! That's so very wrong!" I'm inclined to extrapolate from the logic on p. 39. I think by nature the circumstances where skills can help or FoRK with pure stat tests are going to be much reduced from that of skills helping or FoRKing with skills anyway...but if its legit I'd fine with it. Much like in the Chase rules.

[luke]

Man, I wish I had an editor to help me make those stupid things consistent before they went out into the wide world.

In the face of such inconsistency (check out the Avoid the Topic action) what am I to say? I remain silent.

[Suicide King]

Ok, I think I'm going to read that with my sarcasm detector set to "on". This is kind of a silly point to raise, as I have the feeling that we are all playing it the way I suggest already and I'm really just blowing in the wind. It can be taken as rules lawyering, I guess.

Understand me right, I was thinking that perhaps there was some argument why one shouldn't allow it, or why one should use linked tests instead. It seems there isn't :)

I was also looking for something to tell my player when I won't let him FoRK falsehood into will for his beginner's luck persuasion test (I neeeed it for that double ob), but will let him FoRK it into his will for his Avoid the Topic test.

[luke]

I was serious!

You're doing fine.
-L

[Kublai]

Suicide King, you're playing it exactly as we do, despite the wording in the book. Skills can help Stats as long as it's appropriate and not a Beginner's Luck test. It makes a lot of sense, too much so to disallow.

[Suicide King]

Luke - Good thing you saved my fragile ego then, I was looking Commander Hold'Em in the eye when I read this ;)
Thanks though, I really do have a bad habit of taking too much as sarcasm and irony, a damage my siblings and I have inflicted on each other.

Kublai - Well, I assumed so and our stance on this is the same and I think that stormsweeper was referering to beginner's luck tests in that thread.

So, I guess it's settled then. Always nice when it can end with us all agreeing :)