"Effect and You" / Area of Effect Question

[jchokey]

From p. 214 of the BWR brown book ("Sorcery" section, "Effect and You" subsection)

"Unless the spell is a natural effect spell gone wild with successes, or unless he wishes it, a wizard is never in danger of being caught up in his own area of effect."

I have some questions about this means in practice, particularly with spells that have a 'measured area' area of effect. The biggest of my questions is this: Does this rule mean that a caster is immune to (or at least that he can choose to ignore) the effects of his own AoE spells, even if he is physically within the AoE? Or does it mean that the caster can always choose to place himself outside of the AoE of a spell, even it is is a spell of personal origin?

That's a bit abstract, so maybe an example would help. Let's say Bob the Sorcerer casts a spell with a personal origin and a 'measured area' of effect that is 10s of paces. What's the spell? Oh, I dunno, let's say that it's some sort of silence spell, that muffles all sound within the measured AoE.

Let's say Bob casts the silence spell so that he is in the center of the AoE, so that all noise is dulled for 10 paces around him.

1) Does the "Effect and You" rule mean that Bob can he still walk, talk, and make noise within the AoE's area of silence, even though he's within it?

2) Or is the idea behind this rule that, even though the spell has a personal origin, Bob always has the option of placing himself just outside the area of effect (like he's standing just outside of a circle 10 paces in diameter)... but that if he chooses to place himself inside the AoE instead, he would be affected by the spell?

[luke]

AoE does not trump Origin.

But an ME spell with Personal Origin doesn't have to be a bubble -- it can be a cone or line or whatever's appropriate. The only "bubble effect" are personal origin/presence AoE spells.

[jchokey]

AoE does not trump Origin. But an ME spell with Personal Origin doesn't have to be a bubble -- it can be a cone or line or whatever's appropriate. The only "bubble effect" are personal origin/presence AoE spells.

OK, that makes a lot of sense.

So, to take that and go back to my questions, does that mean that the answer to #1 is "No, if he choose to place himself within the affected area, he'll be subject to its effects"?

And that the answer to #2 is "Yes, but it doesn't have to be a circle... it could be some other shape"?

[luke]

Dude! What does the rule say?! An "area of effect" is the location in which the effect of the spell takes hold. If the wizard is never in danger of being caught in his own AoE, what call would you make?

[jchokey]

Dude! What does the rule say?! An "area of effect" is the location in which the effect of the spell takes hold. If the wizard is never in danger of being caught in his own AoE, what call would you make?

The one I posed in my last post. But I'm checking to confirm that's how you and the folks who are more experienced think it should be handled as well.

[stormsweeper]

It's not like there's a battlemat to draw the AoE on. :P

[luke]

Play from your gut, man. You're doing fine.

[jchokey]

Play from your gut, man. You're doing fine.

All right, I'll try to be less needy. ;)

FWIW: I think my initial question was prompted by some confusion between "Effect" and "Area of Effect".

If you're taking notes for editorial revision, perhaps, in the 3rd edition, the subheader should be called "Area of Effect and You", since it's really talking about the caster being spatially outside of the AoE-- not being immune to the effects of his own AoE spells.

[luke]

But it's the same thing. You can't have an Effect without an Area which encompasses it.

[jchokey]

But it's the same thing. You can't have an Effect without an Area which encompasses it.

Sure, it's true that an effect only occurs in the area of effect-- that's pretty much the case by definition. But, the Sorcery rules in the brown BWR book do distinguish between 'effect' and 'area of effect' as separate facets of a spell (pp. 208-209)-- the former is 'what happens', the latter is 'where it happens'. So, they're not entirely the same thing, conceptually speaking.

Still, you're probably right-- the significance of such a distinction is going to be trivial most of the time. I guess I was just wondering about those other situations in which it might be important to know whether the sorcerer is not "caught up" in the effect of his spell simply because he can make sure that he is outside the area of the effect-- or whether he's not "caught up" in it, because he's immune to the effect (even if he happens to be within the area in which the effect is taking place).

(FWIW, part of my perplexity on this point likely stems from the fact that I'm coming to BW after years of playing Harnmaster, a system whose magic spell descriptions often include phrases like "The caster is subject to the spell's effects if he is within in or enters the affected area" as well as the opposite. I think this predisposed me to think that the "Effect and You" rule was really talking about the caster being immune to a spell's effects, rather than being able to place himself outside the area of effect. So, it may be that I just to do some 'unlearning' and drop some of the system-based conceptual baggage I've brought with me from HM.)

[luke]

A sorcerer could drop a Rain of Fire right on top of himself and remain unharmed.

[jchokey]

A sorcerer could drop a Rain of Fire right on top of himself and remain unharmed.

Wow... OK, so, in fact, the answer I extrapolated for question #1 in post #3 above was wrong!

The answer to question #1 should have been, "Yes, he can place himself in the area of effect, yet not be subject to the effect itself." Or at least thats what your most recent clarification suggests.

[Thor]

The answer to question #1 should have been, "Yes, he can place himself in the area of effect, yet not be subject to the effect itself." Or at least thats what your most recent clarification suggests.

Yes. This really comes down to a simple principle of Burning Wheel: A player cannot be punished for a successful roll.

[jchokey]

Yes. This really comes down to a simple principle of Burning Wheel: A player cannot be punished for a successful roll.

Thanks, Thor.