Grav bike punks jump a merchant's Anvil bodyguard

[Paul B]

Okay, so this is what I'm seeing:

A small gang of grav bike (http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Grav_Bikes) riding punks led by a GMFoN has been tasked with kidnapping a Merchant League big-wig on a known path through the city. They have advance knowledge of the hit, extensive personal knowledge of the area, and ample opportunity to set a trap. They are, however, punks. The GMFoN has 6 LPs and his broomstick-riding goons have 4, and nobody has especially spectacular stats. I'm envisioning a mix of CC and Assault weaponry, giving them a sniperish dude or two. Low Index. Probably a single unit, five or six guys total.

The official, an NPC, is accompanied by the captain of his guard (a PCFoN) as well as a small contingent of Anvil-equipped troops. Because they're intended to be a bodyguard and not an assault force, I'm envisioning Anvil all around but CC weaponry only. Low Index. One unit, a handful of guys led by the FoN. The intent of the ambush is to catch the official before he gets into his grav sled, so I'm envisioning the grav sled itself being an objective.

What I want to test is that high advantages in mobility and range, plus a fair shot at an ambush, can even the odds for semi-competent crooks against Anvil. I also want to see vehicles vs. non-vehicles in action.

I know Sydney's gonna gnash and wail but I'm really not feeling his atomically-detailed lifepaths. Adore the grav bikes, but I'd rather stick to standard LPs.

I'll post up what I've got for an ambushing force first.

Map details:

I'm envisioning a wide, open street down the middle, going north/south -- no man's land. Parked grav sleds along each sidewalk -- P1C1 along each sidewalk for starters. High rise at the upper right corner: P1C1 for the rooftop, P1C2 for the interior (they're obviously "adjacent"). Apartment tower at the lower right corner: P1C1 for the roof, P1C2 for the interior. Alley (no man's land) heading east between both buildings. A big grassy park is across the street, filled with trees, fountains, frolicking families (P1C1 for starters). And finally...I'm not sure how to do it but I'm thinking manholes scattered around the street, providing access to the sewers: P1C3.

I think it's more than fair that the grav bikes can't get into buildings or sewers without the punks giving up the bikes. Not sure how to represent that other than via an advance that says "we're leaving the bikes behind."

What do you think? I'll post up actual punks in a bit.

p.

[Paul B]

Dude McBlackhat: criminal operator, enforcer for the local family

Lifepaths: Born to freemen, soldier, sergeant, man at arms, gunsel, criminal

Stats:
Will 5, Perception 4, Agility 5, Speed 4, Power 4, Forte 4
Steel 8, Hesitation 5, Resources 3, Circles 0
Superficial 3H, Injured 5H, Maimed 8H, Mortal 10H

Affiliations:
1D the Family
1D the Flyboys (grav bike flying punks)

Reputations:
1D Bad Egg
1D boss of the Flyboys

Skills: Assault weapons 6, Close Combat 6, Criminal-wise 2, Thug-wise 2, Infiltration 5, Intimidation 4, Observation 4, Security 4, Soldiering 2, Streetwise 5, Tactics 5

Traits: Bad Egg, Family, Human, Indifferent to Vaylen, Loyal to the Family, Muscle, Oddly Likeable, Technical

Beliefs:
* The Family is everything; I'll never allow harm to come to the Boss or his operations
* The Flyboys are the up-and-coming leaders of the Family; I'll do everything I can to increase their fortunes
* placeholder belief #3
* placeholder belief #4

Instincts:
* Always send a lackey ahead to scout things out
* Never hit the streets without backup weapons
* Can't think of a good firefight-oriented instinct right now.

Gear:
CEBW
Jack laser

(No...no armor or bike. No piloting skill, but he has a trusted pilot among the flyboys who pilots for him. I'm playing fast-and-loose with the grav bike design, letting McBlackhat ride bitch.)

[Paul B]

Flyboy

Lifepath: Born on the Streets, Soldier, Desperate Killer, Freebooter

Stats:
Will 4, Perception 4, Agility 5, Speed 4, Power 4, Forte 4
Steel 7, Hesitation 6, Resources 0, Circles 1
Superficial 3H, Injured 5H, Maimed 8H, Mortal 10H

Affiliations:
2D Flyboys

Skills:
Anvil-wise 2, Assault Weapons 4, Close Combat 4, Inconspicuous 3, Intimidation 2, Pilot 4, Soldiering 2

Traits:
Desperate, FUGAZI, Mercenary, Orphan

Gear:
Broomstick Bike
SCREW or Jacked laser (divide evenly among guys)

[Sydney Freedberg]

Cool! And, no, I don't feel dissed on the specialist lifepaths. I look forward to the annihilating.

[Countercheck]

You want my guys to be IN anvil or no?

[Paul B]

Hm...Anvil-wise 2...I think it's standard issue for Anvil troops in an urban bodyguard setting to keep a lower profile than they would on a battlefield.

How about ballistic vest & helmet (i.e. armor 2)? I think putting naked thugs on bike up against quite-nearly-powered-armor would be unsporting.

In either case I have a strong suspicion the Flyboys are gonna get greased.

p.

[Countercheck]

How many of them?

And don't be certain. Your punks have heavier chassis and superior speed. And longer range. And possibly numbers.

[Sydney Freedberg]

[EDIT: crossposted with Mike, but this is about the bodyguards' equipment:]

Depends on the local culture and conditions, I'd imagine. If you're in someplace like Dark Age Europe or modern Afghanistan, you're probably rolling around blatantly displaying how good your arms and armor are so nobody screws with you. If it's someplace more civilized, like Renaissance France (i.e. the Three Musketeers), you're carrying something short of full military gear but distinctly and obviously more potent than what the average person carries -- which is where Paul's ballistic armor fits in. If it's a well-policed culture, like the modern day US or Europe, then openly displayed arms and armor are only for very special police units, and most bodyguards are going to be in civilian clothes with concealed hand weapons only.

[Countercheck]

And since BE has a distinctly gritty and medieval feel, I was thinking full anvil and longarms might be appropriate. Or not =) Otherwise I'd probably go with the ballistic vests and helmets and jacked weapons. Or, if we're in a big city where people aren't supposed to carry military grade equipment, concealed armour, stet guns, and stun batons.

[Paul B]

Mike: Let's call it even numbers for sanity's sake. I have 5 punks + McBlackhat, you have 5 guards + a 6LP commander.

Syd: I was thinking more along the lines of a well-policed setting (clean cyberpunk, somewhere in the Karsan League probably) rather than anarchy. In an anarchistic setting I think I'd go with harder bad men than what I've got here. Although now you've got me thinking about a Road Warrior-style challenge next ...

That said, I could certainly see the bodyguards in actual Anvil, particularly if Merchant Macguffin is a highly sought-after target. Mike, I'll leave it to your discretion!

p.

[Paul B]

And since BE has a distinctly gritty and medieval feel, I was thinking full anvil and longarms might be appropriate. Or not =) Otherwise I'd probably go with the ballistic vests and helmets and jacked weapons. Or, if we're in a big city where people aren't supposed to carry military grade equipment, concealed armour, stet guns, and stun batons.

How cool is that? I totally didn't have that in my head when I was sketching out the scenario but this description is not only totally legit but it totally rocks. Small-arms running gang fight on salvaged ground cars next time around?

p.

[Countercheck]

Don't have time for a full burn right now, but here's what I'm seeing for the head of security.

Born to the League
Student
Soldier
Sergeant
Anvil Elite
Security Officer

I notice that you go Born Wherever directly to Soldier a lot. That means your characters have been under military discipline since they were 9? McBlackhat joined the Anvil when he was 11. By 14, he was a sergeant. I'm just checking to see if that's what you actually want...

[Sydney Freedberg]

The Cadet lifepath (http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Military_and_Security_lifepaths#Ca det) is designed to fix exactly that problem.

Just sayin'.

We now return you to our regular commercial-free programming.

[Paul B]

I notice that you go Born Wherever directly to Soldier a lot. That means your characters have been under military discipline since they were 9? McBlackhat joined the Anvil when he was 11. By 14, he was a sergeant. I'm just checking to see if that's what you actually want...

Honestly I don't know how else one is supposed to get a competent, say, Anvil Elite built in 6 paths [EDIT: COMPETENT MILITARY FON, NOT ANVIL ELITE PER SE] without going straight to soldier. I've thought about the student thing. I've thought about various hive thug-type placeholders. I guess I, too, am dissatisfied with the fact you can join the army at age 9, yet I also don't want to waste a path on a placeholder just to make the math seem right. I almost wonder if there should be some kind of "Anvil/Hammer lifepaths cannot be your second LP" type overarching restriction.

If you feel like that's fair -- and I do, from a sim point of view -- I'd be happy to reburn and start this thread over. Lemme know!

p.

[Countercheck]

Sydney, totally correct. Paul, do you mind if I take a few of Sydney's LPs, specifically cadet? It's really kinda necessary =P

[Paul B]

Completely cool by me. I'll do something similar to make my ages work out right at this end. Let's repost!

It's certainly brought up another interesting/weird quirk of the game. I may allow young-ish initial ages -- I'm thinking a primitive/medieval setting could make this likely -- but probably not TOO young. Maybe age 12 as an age limit.

If abzu is reading: Did something get left out of the Anvil lifepaths (i.e. "Soldier can't be your second lifepath" or something like that) or was it intended to be okay that you had such young grunts? It says a lot about the setting either way.

p.

EDIT: Strictly speaking, you're actually 10 when you join the Anvil and make the jump from the "outcast and criminal" setting.

[Countercheck]

I could see child soldiers... but I almost feel like it should be a separate lifepath. Child soldiers are not really Anvil material. More of an outcast lifepath along the lines of Desperate Killer. But with Orphaned, Abused, Broken, and Zealot as possible traits.

[chris_worm]

It is only a problem if you take the life path durations Literally. Only the end age of the character really matters for game purposes - in fact the character's abilities are not determined until after their age is determined. You can rationalize that they entered service at 18 and shot through the ranks ending up as an Anvil Ellite (just so long as the final age matches up, and they take the right LP). After all the LP system is just an abstraction.

After all not all soldiers have to take the same time to be promoted to Sergent.

[Paul B]

It is only a problem if you take the life path durations Literally. Only the end age of the character really matters for game purposes - in fact the character's abilities are not determined until after their age is determined. You can rationalize that they entered service at 18 and shot through the ranks ending up as an Anvil Ellite (just so long as the final age matches up, and they take the right LP). After all the LP system is just an abstraction.

After all not all soldiers have to take the same time to be promoted to Sergent.

This is exactly how I've been doing it. The initial ages are weird, but you end up with 30-year-old Anvil Elites, which seem about right to me. Dude McBlackhat is 32 IIRC.

So, in the interest of simplicity, I think I'll just hold onto my current burns. I'd rather get into the fightin' than dicker over burnin'.

p.

[Countercheck]

Commander is going to look more like:

Born to the League
Soldier
Sergeant
Anvil Elite
Professional Officer
Security Officer

Grunts are going to look like

Born to the League
Soldier
Scout
Anvil Elite

[Countercheck]

WHO YOU ARE: Biographical basics

Name: Captain Jarvis

Human Age: 34
Concept: Mercenary Officer
Born to the League Soldier Sergeant Anvil Elite Professional Officer
Security Officer


PERSONAL TRAITS
Capitalist at Heart,
FUGAZI
Oddly Likeable,
Anvil Trained
No Nonsense,
Mean,
Cunning
Mercenary
Stoic


STATS: Exponent
Will 6
Perception 4
Agility 4
Speed 4
Power 4
Forte 4

Ability
ATTRIBUTES: Exponent
Resources 7
Circles 3
Steel 8
Hesitation 0

TOLERANCES: Threshold
Superficial 3
Injury 5
Maimed 8
Mortal 10


SKILLS: Exponent

Soldiering (Wil/Per), 3
Tactics (Per), 6
Squad Support Weapons (Agi), 3
Command (Wil), 6
Interrogation (Wil), 3
Close Combat (Wil/Agi) 3
Assault Weapons (Agi), 3
Crowd Suppression-wise (Per), 3
Corporate Hierarchy-wise (Per), 2
Anvil-wise (Per) 2
Soldier-wise (Per), 2
Intimidation (Wil), 4
Torture-wise (Per) 2
Observation (Per) 4
Principal-wise (Per) 2



Equipment
Anvil
CEBW
Security Baton

[Countercheck]

Name Anvil Escort

Human Age: 20
Concept: Mercenary Grunt
Born to the League Soldier Scout Anvil Elite

PERSONAL TRAITS
Capitalist at Heart,
FUGAZI
Cold
Anvil Trained
Mercenary
Thug

STATS: Exponent
Will 4
Perception 4
Agility 6
Speed 4
Power 4
Forte 4

Ability
ATTRIBUTES: Exponent
Resources 4
Circles 2
Steel 7
Hesitation 3

TOLERANCES: Threshold
Superficial 3
Injury 5
Maimed 8
Mortal 10


WHAT YOU CAN DO, part 2: Skills & Tolerances

Ability
SKILLS: Exponent

Soldiering (Wil/Per), 2
Recon (Per), 3
Squad Support Weapons (Agi), 3
Assault Weapons (Agi), 5
Observation (Per), 6
Close Combat (Wil/Agi) 4
Infiltration (Spd), 5


Equipment
Anvil
Jack Laser
Security Baton

[luke]

Child soldiers, child soldiers, child soldiers. Does it offend you little girls that the army comes for your children when they're about 10, puts a gun in their hand and carts them off to war? It fills their mind full of propaganda and their bodies full of drugs. It uses them and ruins them.

Sydney's Cadet lifepath is for sedentary, boring cultures who have shrugged off this awful notion of "dystopia." I mean really, who'd want to play in a dystopia?

Also, there are PLENTY of pre-Soldier LPs in the book. Student, Kid, Runner, Page, etc.

[cmoeller]

Child soldiers, child soldiers, child soldiers. Does it offend you little girls that the army comes for your children when they're about 10

I find that idea offensive, yes indeed, and I'm not even a little girl.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/

-Chris

[luke]

also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

that's a fun read!

[Paul B]

Mike, everything looks awesome on my end. Ready to rock?


Dude McBlackhat studies the busy streetscape below, sneering at the scurrying shoppers and salarymen. Dusk spreads across the sky. By nightfall, his fat prey will scurry out as well. If tonight is like the last few nights, the league official will be clenched up tight as a vestal cotar, flanked on all sides by the best Anvil his corporation can buy.

Behind him, McBlackhat's Flyboys drift impatiently a couple feet off the rooftop like methed-out dandelions. Grav engines whine and growl.

"We've been watching this bank for a week, Dude. Let's man up and do this thing." The voice behind McBlackhat is ragged from the toxic crap the Flyboy has been smoking.

"Yeah," Dude says. He pulls back from the roof's edge, stands, and straightens his bowtie and cummerbund. "So here's how it's gonna go down..."


Prior to finishing up the battle space: Do you have a recon roll? I don't, but I'd like my guys to attempt an ambush. I've got Infiltration 5, I'd like to FoRK in Tactics (Dude doesn't have any good wises ) and get +1D help from one of the Flyboys' Anvil-Wise. It's not a terrific roll, but whateva!

p.

[Countercheck]

Child soldiers, child soldiers, child soldiers. Does it offend you little girls that the army comes for your children when they're about 10, puts a gun in their hand and carts them off to war? It fills their mind full of propaganda and their bodies full of drugs. It uses them and ruins them.

Sydney's Cadet lifepath is for sedentary, boring cultures who have shrugged off this awful notion of "dystopia." I mean really, who'd want to play in a dystopia?

Also, there are PLENTY of pre-Soldier LPs in the book. Student, Kid, Runner, Page, etc.

I agree, there are plenty of pre-soldier LPs... you just can't get to anvil elite in four LPs if you take one. And the soldier lifepath does not, to me, represent the experience of child soldiers accurately. Runner is much more accurate.

"Ow, you stepped on my foot, you clumsy oaf!" The League Banker's high pitched, whiny voice barely registered as Captain Jarvis scanned the crowd, his helmet open.

"I'm sorry sir," he replied absently as he narrowed his eyes, staring at a disreputable fellow in front of him. The man blanched and scurried to the side, his hands empty and away from his body. "Sir, I must again strongly recommend that you hire some more of my men to act as a plainclothes outer perimeter guard."

"Not this again! I regret hiring you, why would I hire any more of you. Only thing you're good for is parting the crowd and scaring children. Trying to take advantage of me, that's all you're doing. I'm sure if I had joined the Anvil like my dear papa wanted you I wouldn't need you. None of you would be able to stand up to me in a fight. As is," he wiped his nose and scuttled behind one of his hulking guards as a Kerrn complete with anvil and sword stalked by, "I find myself reliant on you... mercenaries."

"Quite, sir."

[Paul B]

I have 7 dice to roll for my Ambush attempt. I get...

Holy cow. 6, 6, 6, 6, 3, 2, 1.

Did we discuss Artha, yet? Do our FoNs start with their standard?

p.

(Nice color, Mike! :-) )

[Countercheck]

no, let's not turn this into a reroll fest. Say, two fate, one persona?

I get seven dice to resist your ambush attempt. Leader has Observation 4 + 2 for help from a grunt +1 for VISE

Roll(7d6)+0:
4,5,6,4,6,3,5,+0
Total:33

WOW.

You gonna open end? =)

[Paul B]

no, let's not turn this into a reroll fest. Say, two fate, one persona?

I get seven dice to resist your ambush attempt. Leader has Observation 4 + 2 for help from a grunt +1 for VISE

Roll(7d6)+0:
4,5,6,4,6,3,5,+0
Total:33

WOW.

You gonna open end? =)

Ach! Yes. -1 Fate. What does the total 33 mean? I'm seeing 6 successes.

4, 4, 3, 2. Total 6 successes, a tie. Meh. I'm not gonna push for a tiebreaker.


The Flyboys rev their bikes into high gear, engine screams echoing down streets and alleys. The young punks grit their teeth into the wind and howl like monkeys as they drop to the street.

"Fucking kids," Dude grumbles to himself. "This ain't amateur hour! Let's light 'em up."


Mike, you want to make your pre-contact recon roll? I don't have one.

p.

[Countercheck]

Naa, my boys are being held pretty tight to the principle. Not doing much recon. They spotted you before you ambushed us, that's good enough.

Contact roll.


once again, straight up observation test. Seven dice.

Roll(7d6)+0:
3,6,4,6,3,6,4,+0
Total:32

Five successes, with three sixes. Paying to open end.

Roll(3d6)+0:
5,1,5,+0
Total:11

Two more successes, for a total contact roll of 7.

Oh, and ignore the total business... I use an online D&D diceroller and just copy it directly.

[Paul B]

(It occurs to me that "always recon ahead" would be an excellent firefight-oriented Instinct.)

My contact roll:

Observation 4 + 1 help (Anvil-wise) = 5, 4, 3, 3, 1

2 successes. Well! Looks like you get the option of starting in position. How do you want to divvy up your extra P? We can set our dispo after that?

Grr...stupid punks. :rolleyes:

p.

[Countercheck]

It certainly would be.

I'm bumping up the value of the interior of the high-rise to P3C2, and I am going to start in that position.

Whoops... My intent is to capture these jokers so I can find out who's behind the kidnapping.

My Disposition roll.

Rolling Command 6D and forking in Tactics 2D and Principle-Wise 1D

Rolling 9 dice.

Roll(9d6)+0:
1,2,6,1,3,3,5,4,2,+0
Total:27

Such is life. 3 Successes. Plus, let's see, Superior Training (1s), Superior Infiltration (1s), possibly Superior Comms (1s) and my position (3s)

So my disposition is between five and six, plus three for the position I am occupying.

"And another thing, I want you and your men to repaint their armour; it is disgraceful that you are not displaying the colours of MY bank..." Captain Jarvis tuned out the banker. The sensor overlay in his helmet indicated there was a group of hover-bikes around the corner in an alley. The men on them were armed surprisingly heavily, with military grade weapons. The power signature flared as the bikers revved their engines.

"Ah, sir? Those bikers?" Yantsis, one of his newer recruits diffidently came on the radio.

"I see them private. Gabbon, Halsy, clear the lobby of that building. Yantsis, Fletcher, you're rearguard. Thompson, you're with me. Let's get this idiot under cover." Moving smoothly, the four anvil elites unslung their jacklasers, and took their positions. Thompson and Jarvis each grabbed one of the banker's arms and began carrying him bodily into the high-rise.

"What? What are you doing? I demand an explanation! Put me down THIS INSTANT!..."

[Paul B]

I'm gonna bump the park to 2PC1. Our objective: Capture the merchant alive.

Dispo:
Tactics 4 + 1D help (anvil-wise again).
6, 5, 3, 2, 1. Such is life when you're disorganized rabble.

I totally didn't see you guys ending up with superior Infiltration. Drat! Let's see...what else is there?

Vehicles: Heavier chassis & greater mobility: +3

Aaaand that's it. Starting dispo 5 for my unit.

I'm definitely seeing you guys with Superior Position (+2) since you get to start back inside the bank. Me being on bikes isn't advantageous once you're popping us from the windows.

This isn't going to end well.


"Aiaiaiaiaiaia!" the punks scream, stoned to the gills and unstrapping their laser carbines as they accelerate toward their prey. Squinting into the wind, Dude McBlackhat mentally ticks off everything that is about to go wrong.

"Full Anvil...well coordinated...and, oh joy, they're headed back into the bank. Guess I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue."



p.

[Paul B]

PS I've got my first three volleys. Lemme know when you're ready and I'll post up.

p.

[Countercheck]

Naa, I get that from the Position bonus already. Superior position would mean I had thought to position snipers, or I had a hammer in low orbit, or an artillery battalion nearby.

Eh, I think our com is equal. So my disposition is 8... but remember, if you drive me out of the building, it drops down to 5 too.

My script is complete. Stop reading here until you're done yours.
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Suppressive Fire, Observe, Suppressive Fire.

Edit: Oh, also, I would rule that you could probably land on the rooftops. You can fly, remember.

[Paul B]

Flank, observe, flank

[EDIT: Just looked at your play.] Huh! So let's see what's what, eh?

I have Tactics 4 + 1 (Anvil-wise FoRK) + sadly, just +1 for my pilot's help. Six dice.

FINALLY a break. 6, 6, 5, 3, 3, 1. I'm cashing in my second and final Fate.

6, 1. Rerolling that 6, and got a 3. So! 4 successes on my Flank.

The bikes race across the tops of cars parked before the bank tower. "Get around to the side!" Dude barks into his pilot's ear. "We're too far out here!"

p.

[luke]

Aw yeah! It's on! I can hear the laser fire over the hum of the grav engines!

[Countercheck]

"They're trying to cut us off from any exits. Let's make em keep their heads down, shall we, boys?"

"What? who are those men? why are you sitting on me? I demand you let me up right now!"

BZAAP BZAAP BZAPP

"Oh god oh god oh god..."

Rolling 6d for tactics.

Roll(6d6)+0:
1,6,6,5,5,5,+0
Total:28

Damn!

Edit, I'm spending my extra success to force a steel test for McBlackhat.

Also, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have twinked Jarvis as much as I did...

[Paul B]

Dang. Seriously, stop with the awesome rolls. :-P

Okay, so we're keeping our heads down I assume. And I assume it's the boss who's making the roll?

8 steel, Ob5
6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 1


Laser fire glitters all around the bikes as they sweep around the building. A stray shot burns its way through McBlackhat's jacket tails. "My favorite jacket!" he growls as he fingers the smoking hole.

He taps the pilot's head. "Where's that fire coming from? We need to get back into position."

My Observe 4 + 1d help, Ob2 since it's independent. 6, 5, 4, 3, 1


"That doorway? Those windows? Avoid that shit!" Dude says, drowned out by the wind.


p.

[Paul B]

Nah, the twinking's all good! It's really excellent to see it play out. So far it's about how I expected it...a lucky ambush + winning contact might have helped some.

p.

[Countercheck]

Hey, when I played against Sydney, my rolls sucked =P

Observe.

6 dice (4 for Jarvis, two for help) Obstacle 3 (+1Ob for being in anvil) Spending the persona to get seven dice.

(another good firefight instinct: Always observe with helmet open.)


Roll(7d6)+0:
2,5,2,2,3,1,2,+0
Total:17

Complete and utter failure.

"Where'd they go?" "Dammit, I can't see shit!" The blind fire they had been pouring at the bikers ignited the paint on some of the groundcars nearby. What with the smoke, the screaming crowd, and the annoyingly fast targets, the anvil section couldn't pinpoint targets for destruction.

"I don't care if you can't see, pour it on! and get that damned crowd out of there. HI! YOU LOT! GET OUT OF HERE! YOU DON"T WANT TO BE AROUND WHEN WE START SHOOTING IN EARNEST!"

Suppressive fire. 6D tactics + 1D Crowd Suppression-wise.

Roll(7d6)+0:
5,1,5,6,5,1,6,+0
Total:29

five successes, with two sixes. We are going to open end this. I have now spent all my artha

Roll(2d6)+0:
1,3,+0
Total:4

To no avail. So, five successes.

[Paul B]

"Let's give those fuckers a good scare," McBlackhat calls out to the Flyboys as they gather around for another strafe. "We can't outshoot 'em, but we can make 'em think twice about their contract."


Flanking roll is just like last time, 6 dice.

4, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1


"Aaaaaahhhhh!!!!" cry the punks in unison as they scatter like doves.


p.

[Countercheck]

Right. I'm giving Dude another steel test, and I'm spending two other successes to reduce your disposition by one.

AMMO CHECK! Ob 5 for the two suppressive fires.

Captain Jarvis automatically fails.
Roll(5d6)+0:
1,5,6,5,1,+0
Total:18

Roll(5d6)+0:
5,3,6,6,2,+0
Total:22

Roll(5d6)+0:
4,3,5,1,6,+0
Total:19

Roll(5d6)+0:
3,4,1,6,1,+0
Total:15

Roll(5d6)+0:
6,5,1,6,1,+0
Total:19

The rest of the section fails too.


As the anvil troopers blazed away out of the windows, their gunbarrels began to glow cherry red.

Next script posted below
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Take Cover, Suppressive Fire, Observe

[Paul B]

Dude's steel test:
6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 2, 1, 1

Whew!

Our dispo is down to 4.

Flank, Direct Fire, Advance


"Make another pass and get into position!" Dude yells at the panicky Flyboys. "I'm not gonna go back to the boss empty-handed just because you ladies peed yourselves. Look! Look! They're not even shooting!"


Flank is, again, 6 dice. Against your take cover I have an Ob1, yes?

6, 6, 6, 4, 2, 1. And me without my Fate. :rolleyes:

-2 to your dispo, +1D [EDITED! I DIDN'T SUBTRACT THE OB OF THE ROLL] to my upcoming Direct Fire.

It occurs to me there is absolutely no way to actually "force" someone out of position, is there? Other than using demolitions to remove it from the map.

p.

[Countercheck]

Take Cover

Speaking of peeing, the anvil inside the bank are sat with their backs against the walls and the front of their armour unclasped, urinating on their red hot lasers to help cool them down. Jarvis press ganged a group civilians to help him move furniture up against the doors and windows of the bank, to prevent the bad men from breaking in.

Take cover. Rolling six dice.

Roll(6d6)+0:
5,3,5,6,5,2,+0
Total:26

Spending one success to improve cover to 3. Nothing I can do with the rest of them.

Disposition reduced to 6.


Suppressive fire.

Rolling tactics. 6 dice.

Roll(6d6)+0:
4,5,6,3,5,3,+0
Total:26

Four successes.

And not true at all! Once you've reduced me to 5 disposition, the position is a lot less attractive, and it would be best if I scurried off somewhere else.

[Paul B]

Re. tactical decisions: I'm not sure why that is. When I'm hitting your dispo, aren't I hitting your UNIT's disposition? Now you have me back re-reading a section. I see. It's ablative! Cool, good to know. Completely overlooked that last sentence all this time.

Anyway, I'm direct firing into your suppressive fire. Come on baby, pappa needs a new pair of shoes...


The grav bikes whiz around the end of the building and see big panoramic windows revealing the Anvils' location. The bodyguards' pants are around their ankles. "Typical," thinks Dude.

"Smoke 'em," Duke mutters into his mike.


Tactics 5, +1D for the anvil-wise help. Man, it's a good thing we know a little something about these guys! Let's see...suppression gave you 4 + 3Ob for your cover = a really bad shot. I'm putting in my Persona.

6, 5, 5, 4, 2, 2, 2 [EDIT: plus my +1D from my flank, which came up a 3]

4 successes. BOHICA.

p.

[Countercheck]

That's actually wrong. The cover obstacle only affects the shot opportunity, not the direct fire action itself. So it's actually four on four. Our suppressive fire makes it impossible for you to get a shot in. No change in the effects, since I got four successes, but best to clarify the point now.

Now, for our observe.

With his men putting out a withering hail of fire that prevented the thugs from getting a clear shot, Captain Jarvis flipped up his helmet to get a better picture of the situation. Immediately, his nose was assaulted by the stench of ozone and burning paint and rubber. "Keep it up boys!"

Observe

Observation 4 + 2 for one of his friends.

Roll(6d6)+0:
6,2,1,2,1,2,+0
Total:14

Again, a single goddamned success.

[Paul B]

Mike, thanks so much for the little clarifications! Amazing the little things that have slipped me by.

Okay, so. No observe, sweet! (Is there a way to mechanically interfere with observation? It's not related to the profile of the vehicle...I guess you could burn +Obs to Observation or Signals or Sensors or whatever).


The simple takedown is turning into an extended firefight. Dude hates extended firefights. He shivers, thinking about long tense nights behind crumbling walls. Different world, different bosses, SOP.

Lasers blaze across the street, smoldering black spots dotting every car and wall within the area. McBlackhat scritches the back of his head, remembering the feeling of a misfitted helmet.

"There, behind the trees," Dude says, sounding more like a soldier than he'd like. "Let's get down into that park. Meet the locals, maybe pick up some townies...and use them as human shields."


I'm advancing on the P2C1 parkland. I just noticed, oh shit, you need Command to advance. SUCK. So I'm looking at an Ob4 vs...Will 5 +1D help from the pilot.

6, 4, 4, 4, 3, 1. Aaah. I think we're in like Flynn. Dispo up to 6, +1C.


An abandoned baby carriage is sucked into the trailing vortex of the grav bikes, tossing blankets and binkies in all directions.

[Paul B]

Almost forgot the ammo check!

Ob1 + 1 for the direct fire. We have the same ammo capacities, yes? Vs. my leader's Assault weapons 6...

6, 6, 5, 3, 2, 1

Looks like we're good to go for another round. My actions (stop reading here!)...

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
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Take cover, direct fire, flank

[Countercheck]

Unfortunately, you don't actually make it under cover. An advance needs to win by a margin equal to the value of the position you're trying to take. Since you don't have command, your successes are halved. So you have two successes total. One counters my Observe, the other gets you halfway to the park. You need to get one more success on an advance before you can take the position. Rescript if you wish.

AMMO CHECK!

one suppressive fire action. OB 3 tests all around.

Captain Jarvis:
Roll(3d6)+0:
1,2,2,+0
Total:5

My luck is holding!

Five anvil officers.

Roll(5d6)+0:
5,4,2,5,4,+0
Total:20

Roll(5d6)+0:
2,2,4,5,2,+0
Total:15

Roll(5d6)+0:
5,3,2,6,1,+0
Total:17

Roll(5d6)+0:
2,5,5,5,2,+0
Total:19

Roll(5d6)+0:
2,2,4,4,4,+0
Total:16


Two fail. The other three can continue shooting.

My script to folllow
.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
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.
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.
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Observe, Suppressive Fire, Suppressive Fire

Edit: And no worries about the clarifications, either. The only way to learn how to firefight is to beat your way through it.

[Paul B]

Wait...I just doubled the Ob is all. Doesn't the math work out the same way? Or is it your Observe that got in the way of that? I think that's it. I rolled 4 successes and then all my Obs got doubled, and I forgot that Observe is a versus action. So 4 - 2 for your Observe - 4 more for the position. Yeah. Okay.

Rescripting: Actually, yeah, I'd rather Flank frankly. The rest of the volleys can stay the same. I'm now seeing Take Cover is another Command roll. My leader sucks!

Re the ammo rolls: Do you really have to roll for every single guy? Really? That's...surprisingly anal-retentive. I could see the guys who got individual fire opportunities, but all of 'em? (Yes, I'm reading p. 526 right now...I'm frankly amazed. I guess you never roll more than 6 times, though, right? Assuming units get divvied up into 5ths regardless of absolute numbers).

Flank:
6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3

5 successes, hell yeah.

EDIT: and the rest of my guys' ammo rolls (4 dice each against Ob2):
#1: OUT
#2: OK
#3: OK
#4: OUT
#5: OUT

p.

[Countercheck]

I'm not going to do anything because I''m gonna give you a chance to change that first flank to an advance. You only need one success to get under cover there. But as soon as you flank, you lose the progress you've made.

[Paul B]

Now I'm confused.

My understanding of a bog-standard Advance is that it's an all-or-nothing deal. Either I get into it or I don't. The only exception to that, as I understand it, is advancing on a "distant position" which the GM may allow to be gained incrementally.

That said, here's something I just read in the Advance rule that's very interesting:

Against versus actions, the commander must win by the value of the position which he is trying to occupy. Against independent actions the obstacle is 1 plus the value of the position you are trying to advance to.

Nothing at all about reducing my successes by your successes. Now, under Observe, you simply deactivate my versus action if you beat my roll (p. 487). So this is what I believe actually happened:

1) I made a 6D "beginners luck" versus roll (my Command vs. your Observe) and got 4 successes against an Ob2, which is doubled to Ob4 because it's a beginner's luck roll. I met my Ob.

2) Now it's up to your Observe to beat my 4 successes (doubling your result to represent the beginner's luck element). You rolled 1 success, which is doubled to beat my beginner's luck roll. A net 2 successes does not beat my net 4 successes, so therefore it does not counter my versus action.

Or am I completely munging this up?

p.

[Countercheck]

Huh, I assumed that the advancing on distant objectives was a general rule, not an exception. You didn't quite make it on the first roll, but you didn't stand still either. You WON the roll. By one. In order to occupy the position, you needed to win by the value of the position, which was two, so you don't get that. But you should get something.


Against versus actions, the commander must win by the value of the position which he is trying to occupy

You are rolling against me. I have the skill, and you don't, which means either my successes are doubled or yours are halved. I believe yours are halved, is the way it usually goes in vs tests. Not only do you need to match me, but you need to win by the value of the position... 2. I had one success, you had four. Your four were halved to two, leaving you with one success above what you needed to take the position....


WAIT! Hold the phone! For some reason, I thought you were advancing into a P2 position, not a P1 position. You totally made it, and we both ought to rescript.

[Paul B]

Just a quick note: p. 308 under Beginner's Luck, obstacles are doubled.

EDIT:

It is a P2 position, it's my upgraded city park (P2C1).

Also, since I don't want to clog up our lovely thread here but I do think this rules issue is worthy of external discussion, I'm going to start a new thread over in Firefight!. (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=35066#post35066)

p.

[Countercheck]

Right, it was the Officer's Roll on page 471 that confused me. In that case, your obstacle was 2x(my roll + 1) which was 4, exactly what you got. And so, you still took the position. Sure you want to go ahead with that flank?

[Paul B]

Oops! Cross-posted. I have a different interpretation of Advance vs. Observe, so I posted it over in Firefight for discussion.

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" :-D

p.

[Countercheck]

In any case, since your advance was successful, do you still want to flank?

[Paul B]

You know what? Let me stick to my original plan (take cover despite my pathetic lack of Command, direct fire, flank) and see how it plays out. Get into the way-back machine aaaaaanddd...

Unskilled roll, using Will 5.
5, 3, 2, 2, 1.

Eep. Fire away!

p.

[Countercheck]

Observation

Roll(6d6)+0:
2,3,4,4,4,4,+0
Total:21

Thank god.

Yew Haff Bin Observed!

Suppressive Fire

"They're using human shields sir!"

"Cowards. Give em a wiff of laserfire on the pavement in front of them. Should keep the crowd away from em."

Tactics 6 plus Crowd Suppression-wise 1

Roll(7d6)+0:
3,5,6,1,3,4,3,+0
Total:25

3 successes.

[Paul B]

Okay, my supermodel good looks have clearly gotten in the way of my reading skills.

Firstly, Mike, you are of course absolutely positively right about how Advance vs. Observe works. The correct parsing of that rule finally clicked over in my brain at about 4:30 a.m. Because you were correct, I definitely didn't get my sad unskilled self into that position: I needed 6 total successes (2x your 1 Observation success + 2x the P2 value of the position), and only got 5.

Secondly, I think the Flybows are pretty much completely hosed at this point. I'm willing to concede, give up my life of crime, do some community service.

Things I learned:
* Command is what sets a well-trained military unit apart from gun-toting thugs. Without it I don't have consistent access to the battle space itself via Advance and Take Cover. The P and C bonuses are too much to ignore.

* Other than total narrative lameness, I can't think of any good reasons to not flank, flank, flank every time. I also can't picture what's going on, exactly, when an enemy's disposition drops due to my flanking (and from extra Advance successes). I'm not shooting. They're not dying. Are they just getting demoralized by my running around? Can I really win a fight without taking a single shot?

* Individual ammo tracking is weak. It's fussy. I don't like it. There must be a better way than figuring six different Obs and making six rolls at the end of every set of volleys. I think I'd much rather track 'em only for guys who take shot opportunities, and for the unit leader after the unit shoots.

Mike -- thank you! And thanks for your patience. I'm pretty but not so smart sometimes. :rolleyes:

p.

[Dave Lucas]

* Other than total narrative lameness, I can't think of any good reasons to not flank, flank, flank every time. I also can't picture what's going on, exactly, when an enemy's disposition drops due to my flanking (and from extra Advance successes). I'm not shooting. They're not dying. Are they just getting demoralized by my running around? Can I really win a fight without taking a single shot?

I can see it!

Your flyboys are making passes in front of the building, taking potshots in at the Anvil troops. It's what they're used to - doing drive-bys on the street. These are too inaccurate to hit anyone (unless you script a Direct Fire or Suppressive Fire), but you can still whittle down the Disposition.

Anyway, let's say you win just by doing Flanks. The merchant panics, rips loose from his bodyguards, and you swoop in and grab him.

Or maybe you push the Anvil into a corner of the building where they are safe, and then one of your guys flies through a window and snatches the merchant right out of the hands of his bodyguard.

Cool fight, guys. Nice to see my boy Mike take the win! Also nice to see some of his strategy in action, for when I'll have a Firefight against that psychotic gunman Francois de Loire. ;)

[Paul B]

I guess I can see that. I hadn't thought there might be random gunfire associated with the flanking. I guess the same goes for the dispo you lose when the enemy does a super-Advance? Or is that more on the order of a demoralization? "Aw jeez, they're holed up tight inside that building! We'll never get 'em out of there!"

Note to self: read more between the lines.

p.

[Countercheck]

Oh, yeah. Everyone's shooting all the time. Suppressive fire is when you get serious and lay down a curtain of fire that nothing could survive, and so force the other guys to hug dirt. Direct fire is when you start aiming and squeezing off shots. But you're shooting a bit all the time. Flank is eroding our disposition through maneuver rather than fire. You take positions that force us to fall back or suffer enfilading fire. You cut off exits. You stage demonstrations of skill that demoralize us. ANYTHING.

And if you want to see howflank flank flank works, I suggest we continue to the next exchange =)

[Paul B]

Okay, okay. Let's say, just because I want to know why I'm wrong, let's back up a bit and say my next set -- regardless of those last craptastic rolls -- is flank flank flank. Are you sticking to your set (I believe it's observe (succeeded), suppression (just rolled), and one more suppression)? I may have lost track of the thread of actions.

p.

[luke]

Paul,
I wanted to pop in and address some of the conceptual issues you asked about upthread:

*It's not just Command or Tactics that sets the Military Pros off from the rest of us, it's having the skills in combination. Having one or the other means you can probably get the job done against the rabble. Having both means you can get the job done period.

*Flank, Flank, Flank is a valid tactic. Encirclement is a high art in warfare. You zip in, encircle and your enemy surrenders. Bing, bam, boom it's over. Dave's explanations are also cool.

*And you really don't have to do individual ammo tests for fights liket this. Individual tests are for when the PCs make up the squad. When you're just playing the commander, use the Commander Is Key rule on page 508.

Lastly, this rocked! Totally fun to read (I really wanted to say "watch"). I would have done things differently with my actions, but that's what's so great about it! Many solutions to one problem!

Also, you should play out the rest of it, because you can force a compromise! You've already nocked off a bunch from his dispo. One or two more points and it's a major compromise. A couple more after that for the win!

Go grav bikers! Go anvil!
Fight!
-L

[Paul B]

Yeah, we'll pick this up with a slight retcon based on my Advance misstep.

It's been a real pleasure to participate in, and I hope it's been fun to read. Mike writes really fun color!

Bring it, tough guy! (Countercheck, not abzu!)

p.

[Thor Olavsrud]

Other than total narrative lameness, I can't think of any good reasons to not flank, flank, flank every time. I also can't picture what's going on, exactly, when an enemy's disposition drops due to my flanking (and from extra Advance successes). I'm not shooting. They're not dying. Are they just getting demoralized by my running around? Can I really win a fight without taking a single shot?

As Abzu noted, flank flank flank is a valid tactic. But only if you don't mind a compromise to your objective. There's a big difference between just winning and winning but owing a major compromise!

[Countercheck]

I've been having a complete blast too! Whoo!

So where do we start from, Paul?

[Paul B]

If you'll indulge me, Mike, let's restart this set with me going flank flank flank, which is perhaps the only viable strategy for a bunch of rabble on bikes who don't care about concessions as long as they get away with their quarry. You have observe, suppress, suppress. Want to keep your excellent rolls so far?

p.

[Countercheck]

Eh, if you don't mind. And certainly, roll your first two flanks!

[Paul B]

Okie dokie! Let's recap everything for the audience at home:

The Flyboys are zipping around outside a bank building, where a Merchant is under heavy guard by mercenary Anvil. They're holed up in a P3C2 position, and have taken -2 to their starting dispo of 5+3 for their position. The Flyboys are in No Man's Land, and have taken -1 to their starting dispo of 5. The Flyboys have successfully Observed your Anvil.

First flank (this is against your Observe's 4 successes), standard 6D like all the rest of the times:

6, 6, 6, 4, 2, 1

FUCK ME. I blew my Fate waaaay too early. Never again am I blowing Fate w/o at least 3x 6s showing.

Anyway, we haff not bin observed. Yeehaw. Suck it, Anvil scum. But we haven't actually done anything, either.

The Flyboys continue their random gunfire into the bank. Windows buckle and shatter, showering the dark street below with a rain of molten glass bubbles. McBlackhat bares his teeth into the wind, taps his pilot on the shoulder for another pass.

Pardon my English,

p.

[Paul B]

Second flank, this time against your Suppressive Fire:

Within the bank building, tellers and old ladies scream as the Flyboys waggle tongues from heavily inked faces, cackling and overclocking their grav engines.

5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

Three successes.

p.

[Countercheck]

Third Suppressive Fire

Roll(6d6)+0:
5,1,4,3,2,6,+0
Total:21

Three Successes.

The old ladies might be frightened, but not the Anvil Trained mercenaries. They ignore the screeching and flung handbags, and methodically try to box in the manically maneuvering mavericks.

[Paul B]

Third flank...

4, 4, 4, 2, 2, 1

"We can keep this up all day, jackholes!" Dude yells through the shattered glass as his pilot buzzes by the front of the bank. "The big game's not for a few more hours. Howzabout you hand over the rich guy and we can all go home and catch the holo?"

p.

[Countercheck]

Alright, I'm assuming we failed our ammo check. My next exchange is scripted... shall we?

[Paul B]

Man...I was really torn on what to do with my next three maneuvers. I'd like to think out loud for a minute here and see if I'm figuring out this strategery thing.

I know you're not shooting next volley and you're hot to Observe my guys once and for all. There are very few ways to effectively versus an Observe, and Flank is the only one I have any shot at doing (given the punks' pathetic lack of Command).

Until I smack away the last of your position's dispo bonus, you're probably not moving out of position into one that gives you less cover.

My lack of Command greatly reduces my options. I can't even predictably move to the rooftops, dammit. :-(

Assuming you nail down the Observe, I can probably expect some Direct Fire to come at me, but up to now you haven't scripted DF in the same set as Observe because you don't want to lose a Volley. So I feel like I don't need to worry about that for now.

So...unless you're about to try something radical, all I see coming is Observe, Suppress, Suppress.

I give you, unimaginatively, Flank Flank Flank. 6 dice per go.

p.

[Countercheck]

HEEEEE!!!

Advance, Close Combat, Close Combat.

[Paul B]

Awright, it's on!

6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

3 successes. I love the smell of ozone in the morning...


p.

[Countercheck]

The lieutenant was thoroughly fed up with situation. The bikers were buzzing about outside peppering the building with laser bursts. The building was in serious danger of catching fire and was losing structural integrity quickly as the lasers superheated water stored in the limestone facade, blasting enormous divots out of the walls. He gave his men a series of hand signals. They nodded, and set fire to the curtains, causing the building to belch smoke. Under the cover of the smoke, he grabbed the principle and dragged him out the door followed by his men... into the waiting clutches of the flyboys.

Roll(6d6)+0:
2,3,3,5,2,5,+0
Total:20

Two successes. My disposition is reduced by 2 (one for leaving the position, one for the flank) down to 4.

Forking in tactics to my command roll:
Roll(7d6)+0:
6,4,5,5,4,5,3,+0
Total:32

6 successes. This could be really bad for both of us.

[Paul B]

McBlackhat watches the paid mooks pour out of the bank. "They're coming out! Stay frosty!"

My flank:

6, 5, 5, 5, 3, 2

Four successes. Versus your six, that's 2 remaining. We both lose one, whee!

I believe we're both down to 3.

So, we're in it now aren't we? Here are my CC actions and rolls (I'm assuming we test only CC skill, no FoRKs or help, right?):

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McBlackhat: Weapon fire, CEBW: 3 successes
Flyboy #1: Weapon fire, SCREW: 2 successes (+1Ob, unwieldy)
Flyboy #2: Weapon fire, SCREW: 2 successes (+1Ob)
Flyboy #3: Weapon fire, jacked laser: 3 successes (+1Ob, jacked assault wpn)
Flyboy #4: Weapon fire, jacked laser: 1 success (+1Ob)
Flyboy #5: Weapon fire, jacked laser: 3 successes (+1Ob)

Buhbye Flyboys! :-O

p.

[Countercheck]

Close combat actions: I worked out the probabilities. Ironically, we'll do better if we go hand to hand... We are wading in with security batons. I'll be interested to see how this works... I've never actually used hand to hand combat the game yet.


And you scripted all Weapons Dire... not that this was surprising, given you didn't buy any h2h close combat weapons.

LT H2H-close combat 3:
Roll(3d6)+0:
2,5,1,+0
Total:8

Fails.

Anvil 1-close combat 4

Roll(4d6)+0:
2,6,6,5,+0
Total:19

Three successes vs Ob2

Anvil 2-close combat 4

Roll(4d6)+0:
4,1,2,6,+0
Total:13

Two successes vs Ob2

Anvil 3-close combat 4

Roll(4d6)+0:
5,4,2,6,+0
Total:17

Three successes vs Ob 2

Anvil 4-close combat 4

Roll(4d6)+0:
6,2,1,3,+0
Total:12

One success vs Ob 2

Anvil 5-close combat 4

Roll(4d6)+0:
3,1,2,1,+0
Total:7

Worms.

Anvil 1, Anvil 2, and anvil 3 are hit.

I'll roll the die of fate, just to keep things moving


Anvil 1, CEBW. Spending a success to add one to die of fate.
Roll(1d6)+0:
1,+1
Total:2

Incidental. H4 hit. In anvil so superficial is raised from 3 to 6. Hit is ignored.


Anvil 2, Jack laser
Roll(1d6)+0:
2,+0
Total:2

Incidental. H4 hit. In anvil so superficial is raised from 3 to 6. Hit is ignored.

Roll(1d6)+0: Anvil 3, Jack laser
5,+0
Total:5
Ow. Superb hit. H12. In anvil so Mortal Wound is increased from 10 to 13. Anvil 3 has been Maimed. He is down. Disposition reduced to 3.


Wow. made a SERIOUS error. Aparently hand to hand tests are against OB3. Silly, silly Michael. So I only score two hits. Dammit. Weapons fire would have been way better. But less visually cool, admittedly =)

[luke]

Mike! Don't forget that your batons are Quick Disrupters -- +1D to your skill when used against his big slow Jack Lasers and they cause an attendant Ob 5 Forte test on a Mark hit!

So roll an additional die for those with 2+ successes (unless you already factored it in and I missed it).

[Countercheck]

Oh! They ARE quick! I forgot they were quick. I remembered that they were disrupters.

So I'm going to roll a few more dice. Only for the ones that got 2 or 3 successes though, since it doesn't matter for the ones that got only one success.



Anvil 1 - 3 successes against ob 3
Roll(1d6)+0:
3,+0
Total:3
No change

Anvil 2 - 2 successes against ob 3
Roll(1d6)+0:
2,+0
Total:2
No change

Anvil 3 - 3 successes against ob 3
Roll(1d6)+0:
2,+0
Total:2
No change

So, I get no more hits, and no stronger hits. What a shame =) So it's just the two. Assign the hits, then roll on the die of fate. Since they are disruptors, if you get a mark or better result, you need to make an Ob5 forte test... margin of failure added as an obstacle to all further actions for the scene.

[Paul B]

Mike, I'm gonna ask you to back everything up a bit further still -- this is (probably) going to work out very well for you. You're gonna laugh; I did, when it occurred to me. Check it, yo:

Point the first: Syd's Broomstick Bikes (http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Grav_Bikes) might cause a +1Ob on all Close Combat and Direct Fire actions (maybe Syd can answer this: Are you referring to the Unit Action or to shot opportunities and CC mini-actions?). So we need to go back and see what I actually hit you with, if in fact that Ob is intended to apply to individual dudes firing individual weapons.

Point the second, and this is a big one: I'm in vehicles. You need to direct weapon fire at me, not hand to hand or overbear or, possibly, even grenades (the book is vague on this last one; they specify "shot opportunity" when attacking vehicles, although it sure seems like grenades might be handy). I'm pretty sure you're not gonna smack your batons on my bikes.

So I recommend you take shot opportunities on me and think about either pounding the bikes out of the air (not that hard; guys in Anvil and Grav Cars, the template for the bike, are almost even on the human scale of damage) or targeting drivers, engines, etc.

:rolleyes: My bad! So sorry I didn't think to bring this up sooner.

p.

[Countercheck]

See, I was envisioning your guys buzzing around close to the ground, and my boys burst out and begin clotheslining yours with our batons as you swoop down to shoot at us. But if you'd like, I'll rescript with weapons fire.

[Paul B]

Augh. I'm sorry.

The bikes are my only defense and I was kind of counting on them, waaay back when we started this, to be an equalizing factor to your Anvil. Do you mind?

Thank you!

EDIT: I suppose I'd be open to you using the batons in a hand-to-hand combat if you were willing to target the driver (costs 3 successes on the attack roll).

p.

[Countercheck]

I was thinking it was going to be one of those movie style guy-on-the-ground-with-a-baseball-bat-fending-off-the-motorcycle-gang-that-tries-to-run-him-over-and-hit-him-with-chains. But I'm perfectly happy going out in a tactical diamond instead =)

And I thought you wanted the vehicles because they gave you a 3 disposition bonus =P

Also, a point. Broomstick bikes aren't actually vehicles. They're a device that gives you a higher speed. They have no integrity, no profile, and no damage tolerances.

[Paul B]

Bah. I had a whole long reply typed up and then hit a sequence of buttons that simultaneously closed all my open window. Stupid computers.

Anyway! Alas, the grav bikes are not vehicles. Well spotted, Anvil scum. ::golf clap:: Seriously, though, this is a much better vision of how the fight plays out; how cool that the Broomstick Bike writeup happens to support it! (Side note to Syd, in case he's reading it: Did you take that into consideration when you specified these bikes as "devices" and not "vehicles"? Turns out to be a brilliant decision.)

Rock.

Let's move ahead...I'm assigning the two hits to my two guys with jacked lasers.

Punk with jacked laser #1: I rolled a 2. That's an H3 wound, which is "superficial."

Punk with jacked laser #2: I rolled a 3. Another superificial.

Where is our dispo at now? I think I'm at 3 (started at 4, then lost 1 to your CC unit action). You were at 4 when you left your position (-1 for the remainder of the position, -1 for my Flank). The CC unit action made us both lose 1, putting you at 3. Then the maim result puts you at -1 more, putting you at 2. Can you double-check my math?

p.

[Sydney Freedberg]

II thought you wanted the vehicles because they gave you a 3 disposition bonus =P Also, a point. Broomstick bikes aren't actually vehicles. They're a device that gives you a higher speed. They have no integrity, no profile, and no damage tolerances.

Mike's right, and in fact I've clarified the write-up on the wiki (http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Grav_Bikes#Broomstick_Bike) accordingly:

Broomstick Bike
Type: Device

Resources Obstacle: 3 points


Atmospheric Speed: 1

While its lack of streamlining makes it slower than enclosed-cockpit grav vehicles, the Broomstick Bike is faster than any ground-based vehicle.

Technological Trait: Technological Stat: Atmospheric Speed, +6 points


Bucking Bronco

The Broomstick's rider can use personal weapons -- even wielding them two-handed for a moment while steering with the knees -- but it is hard to aim from such an unstable platform.

The Broomstick's rider suffers +1 Ob to all Direct Fire unit actions and to individual shot opportunities, including individual Weapons Fire actions in Close Combat (although not to Close Combat unit actions, where the sheer velocity of the charging bike is a potent weapon to scatter and disrupt enemy formations).

Technological Traits: +1 Obstacle Limitation, -2 points; affects additional skill, -1 point. Total: -3 points


Notes:

The Broomstick Bike can be flown without the Pilot skill, although this results in a doubled obstacle penalty in any dangerous situation.

The Broomstick Bike does not count as a vehicle for the purposes of Sensor rules -- it cannot be detected by Sensors nor be Locked On -- or for the purposes of most combat rules -- its rider may be targeted normally, without treating him or her as being inside a vehicle (since the rider is often larger than the "vehicle"!).

The Broomstick Bike does count as a vehicle for the purposes of calculating initial Disposition bonuses in Firefight.


I hope that clears up more confusions than it creates!

[Countercheck]

Given the increased Obstacle for being on the bikes, actually, only McBlackhat hit. So my maimed anvil isn't maimed, and we are at disposition 3.

[Paul B]

Nope, that all sounds good Syd. A little playtesting goes a long way, eh? :-D

Mike: Just saw your post. Shall we move on to the final volley?

My next flank:

6, 5, 5, 4, 2, 1. Four successes.

The Flyboys bob and weave between flying batons, static crackling in the air as the guards make contact with the punks. McBlackhat waves his hands around wildly, laser pistol firing in the air as he directs his boys around to make another, perhaps final, charge through the guards.

p.

[Countercheck]

Roll(7d6)+0:
5,4,5,3,1,1,6,+0
Total:25

Four successes. We move straight into Close Combat.

We are still desperately hoping to score Mark results with our batons.

LT: Close Combat 3+1 for quick against Ob (or vs , I suppose)
Roll(4d6)+0:
3,1,5,5,+0
Total:14
LT is useless.

Now for his 5 grunts.

Roll(5d6)+0:
3,2,2,5,5,+0
Total:17
Useless

Roll(5d6)+0:
5,6,5,3,6,+0
Total:25
A hit with one to spare!

Roll(5d6)+0:
2,3,1,6,6,+0
Total:18
Useless

Roll(5d6)+0:
2,5,5,6,6,+0
Total:24
A hit with one to spare!

Roll(5d6)+0:
3,6,5,4,1,+0
Total:19
A Hit!

Laser fire sparkling off their armour, the mercs continued laying about the Flyboys with their stun batons, trying to take the morons alive. "We don't want to kill you," bellowed the LT as he swung at and missed McBlackhat.. "Surrender and we can fix this for you."

[Paul B]

Hoo boy...three hits coming in. I'm designating them on...

Flyboy #4 w/jacked laser (+1 to DoF): total 3, incidental

Flyboy #5 w/jacked laser (+1 to DoF): total 4, MARK! Bzzt. He takes an H5 (injured!) and is now making his Ob5 Forte test. 6, 4, 3, 2. +2Ob to everything else this scene. I assume our gunfire is simultaneous?

Flyboy #3 w/SCREW: a 6. SUPERIOR HIT! He takes an H8 (Maimed) and is out.

My dispo is down to 2.

One of the Flyboys reaches out with his gigantic subcritial weapon, stolen some years ago from drunken Anvil who had wandered into the 'hood. He awkwardly fires into the crowd, only to be clotheslined off his bike. He writhes in the street as the cheap grav bike plows into a row of parked cars.

We are, of course, using Direct Fire. Same setup as before:

Dude McBlackhat: McBlackhat: Weapon fire, CEBW (+1Ob): 6, 4, 4, 3, 1, 1. A hit!

Flyboy #1: Weapon fire, SCREW (+2Ob): 6, 4, 2, 1. Miss.
Flyboy #2: Weapon fire, SCREW (+2Ob): Worms. This is the guy who dies.
Flyboy #3: Weapon fire, jacked laser (+2Ob): 6, 5, 4, 3. A very near miss!
Flyboy #4: Weapon fire, jacked laser (+2Ob): 4, 3, 2, 1. Miss.
Flyboy #5: Weapon fire, jacked laser (+2Ob): 4, 4, 3, 2. Sigh. Misses all around.

So the CEBW drills someone on your end, with no DoF bonus.

Closer fight than I thought it'd be!

p.

[Countercheck]

CEBW hits Anvil 5.
Roll(1d6)+0:
6,+0
Total:6

Superb hit. H10. That is an Injured result. God bless armour.

McBlackhat raised his pistol in response and shot one of the Anvil Elites in the head. The armour deflected the worst of the blast, but the armour was cratered, and given the shrill shriek of the man, some of the energy penetrated.


Script!






CC, CC, CC.

[Paul B]

"We're getting our ass kicked down here, boss!" a Flyboy yells, ducking under the swing of a sizzling baton. "Let's pop 'em from the rooftop."

I'm gonna take a chance on an untrained Advance onto the P1C1 rooftops (and, apparently, out of your CC range) followed by Direct Fire, Direct Fire. This will probably result in instant death, but whateva. If I get lucky I get out of your wheelhouse.

My Advance should be Ob4: 1 for the independent +1 for the P value of the roofs, x2 because this is all untrained. I'm rolling against my Will, with my pilot throwing in +1D. 6D against Ob4:

Total fuckup. 6, 5, 3, 3, 2, 1.

Time to crack some skulls!

p.

[Countercheck]

Rolling Tactics, and command.

Roll(7d6)+0:
6,1,4,3,5,6,1,+0
Total:26

4 successes. Each of us takes a hit. I'm down to 2, you're down to 1.

LT rolls
Roll(4d6)+0:
4,2,1,4,+0
Total:11

The LT cannot hit the broadside of a barn.

Anvil 1
Roll(5d6)+0:
3,1,6,3,5,+0
Total:18
Swinganamiss

Anvil 2
Roll(5d6)+0:
5,3,3,6,5,+0
Total:22
Hit

Anvil 3
Roll(5d6)+0:
6,5,5,1,4,+0
Total:21
Hit with one to spare

Anvil 4
Roll(5d6)+0:
2,4,1,5,5,+0
Total:17
Hit

Anvil 5 (Injured)
Roll(4d6)+0:
4,4,3,3,+0
Total:14
Swinganamiss

[Paul B]

Hoo boy, I'm sure this must be it. I'm designating the three hits as follows:

Flyboy #2 (SCREW) gets a hit. DoF sez...Mark! H5 is an injury. 6, 3, 2, 1 on the Ob5 disruptor hit. I'm at +3Ob to everything else (and of course the +1 for being injured).

Flyboy #4 (jack laser) gets a hit. DoF sez...incidental! H3 is his second superficial, feh. +1Ob.

McBlackhat gets the hit with the bonus. DoF sez...A SIX! A seven, with the bonus. Direct crack to the noggin, delivering a maiming result and generally fucking up his day. That's the last of my disposition.

All I can hope for now is a tie result...which would totally rock. My shooters:

McBlackhat: Weapon fire, CEBW (+1Ob): 6, 6, 6, 6, 4, 2. Where's that FATE?! A hit with +1 to the DoF.

Flyboy #1: Weapon fire, SCREW (+2Ob): 6, 1, 1, 1. Total miss.

Flyboy #2 : Weapon fire, SCREW (+2Ob): 6, 5, 4, 2. Miss.

Flyboy #3 is flopping around like a fish.

Flyboy #4: Weapon fire, jacked laser (+2Ob): 5, 4, 3, 2. Dang it, that was my last likely shot.

Flyboy #5: Weapon fire, jacked laser (+5Ob, disruptor and injury): Can't do it w/o Artha, so a miss.

Well played, Anvil guard. My major concession: The merchant gets grievously (alas not mortally) wounded in the course of the fight!

Thanks, Mike. Big fun. Verrrry educational.

p.

[Countercheck]

Since you had McBlackhat take the hit, I'll have the LT take McBlackhat's hit.

Roll(1d6)+1:
6,+1
Total:7

Bloody hell.

LT is now Injured.

The Lieutenant was satisfied as his men beat the remaining flyboys to the ground. He turned to McBlackhat. "Well, will you surrender now?"

"Fuck you, pig!" McBlackhat snatched his pistol off the ground and aimed it at the banker. The Lieutenant threw himself in front of his charge, but McBlackhat got a shot off before he could interpose his body. He heard a shriek from behind him, and McBlackhat fired again, shattering the Lieutenant's breastplate and sending shards of ceramic deep into his torso.

McBlackhat was still giggling as he went down under a pile of Anvil, their stun batons rising and falling rhythmically.


I'll say it was educational! I learned a LOT about firefight. And had a damn good time =)

[Paul B]

My final thoughts:

* Armor is excellent. It saved you dispo losses as well as CC opportunities.

* CC is super scary. I don't know that I'd go for it if I couldn't afford to make a concession.

* The vehicle-versus-device thing was troubling (only insofar as I was kind of banking on it way back at the beginning) but an excellent design decision on Syd's part. That made the whole end fight play out "right". The punks in my actual game may be in chopped grav sleds instead, just so they get the vehicle's protection.

* The command/tactics package is sweet. The lack of that package also does a good job of modeling untrained thugs and their lack of discipline.

* The +Ob for the SCREW sure makes it hard to justify giving it to anyone but the most-talented of your shooters. I wish McBlackhat had had one; he'd have smoked at least one Anvil.

* I'm going to focus more on making the Contact roll. Simultaneously selecting which position is the most valuable AND starting in that position is a humongous benefit.

p.

[Countercheck]

Notes:

If you have armour and the other lot doesn't, go for close combat ASAP. Close combat is ridiculously deadly, and not even particularly hard to get into.

There is nothing more frustrating than being unable to bloody observe the opponent.


You could fit them out with modified bullet bikes.

[Sydney Freedberg]

Thanks, guys!

It was cool to see the Broomsticks in action, and it helped me refine the write-up significantly. Remember, Paul, as Mike said, that there's the more substantial Bullet Bike (http://www.burningempires.com/wiki/index.php?title=Grav_Bikes#Bullet_Bike) as well, which is a vehicle -- derived from the Grav Sled, in fact -- and is still only an Ob 4 Resources test.

And I totally agree with you on brutal power of winning the Contact roll; that was certainly my experience using Hussars against Mike's Kerrn sappers (http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3242).

The other lessons-learned -- about armor, close combat, and the pain of not having Command in particular -- are all entirely new to me and very useful.

[luke]

Much fun! Thanks, guys, for sticking it out and wading through the snarls and tangles.

Paul, that's a GREAT compromise! Love it!

Also, I love Close Combat!
-L