Emotional Attribute, Have Concept, Need Advice!

[sanjwise]

Hey all,

I was reading through a bit of the Monster Burner and I came across the chapter about emotional attributes.

I have been toying with the idea of creating an EA to represent the eerie creepiness that forms the fabric of the Slavic inspired Old Forest that is part of our campaign world, the Duchies of Karpa.

An Ancient Faerie Realm ruled by a wicked Night Queen. For man to enter these deep woods, he must know the paths that lead in…and more importantly those that lead out. The pathways are perilous because at every turn there lies the danger of loosing ones way and never returning to the REAL WORLD.

How can I represent this as an emotional attribute? Some kind of energy that a strider could tap into to “sense the right path,” to “know the mood of the wood.” To even interact with the creatures of the wood – say, by not falling for the tricks of a twisted tree nixie.

If you get Lost you could go Wild.

Inspiration would draw off of the Unseelie Court, Black Unicorns, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, Ravenloft, an Elven Ghost Citadel in the Forest?

Help?

[luke]

First, an EA must tie into the very fabric of being of the character type. It must represent some tragic underlying theme that represents the entire culture in the fiction. Second, it's got to be fatal.

[johnstone]

Secret Ways?
Fey Roads?
Faerie Nature?
something like that?

The rating represents your connection to the Other World - once you get to 10 you disappear on the secret roads and are never seen in the real world again (cause you are lost in Arcadia and the game takes place in the real world...)

Maybe you can use the EA rating as bonus dice to a test where your faerie nature would be useful, just like extra dice in Under a Serpent Sun? Including Circles tests to find faerie people?

The stronger it gets, the weirder you become - maybe you get a +1 Ob to all Social tests against people who have Perception equal to or higher than 10 minus EA?

concepts to keep in mind:

-Utility: what does the EA do for the character? Grief doesn't do much good for elves, but Need and Despair give you lots of extra dice, and Orcs have skills rooted in Hatred.

-Weaknesses: does the EA make you more vulnerable? Or does it only have an effect when it gets to 10 and takes your character out?

-Endgame: how does it end up destroying the character when it gets to 10 - this is inherent in all Emotional Attributes.

If it's more about an ability to guide you through the woods, though, I'd go with Wises, or Natural Magic (open-ended skills) - Secret Ways, rooted in Perception - use this as a Versus test against the Strength of a spirit attempting to lead you astray in the woods.

[sanjwise]

First, an EA must tie into the very fabric of being of the character type. It must represent some tragic underlying theme that represents the entire culture in the fiction. Second, it's got to be fatal.

I think that this kind of Emotional Attribute would 'tie into the very fabric of being of the character' by sort of luring him, like a drug, into the Deep Woods - Faerie Forest. Most people in the Duchies shun the Deep Woods, and stay well clear of those darkened paths, but there are some cannot resist the pull of the Fea Wood. This pull, however, leads only to tragic ends - either the character's mind get's warped and he/she becomes a 'crazy witch' living on the margins of the REAL WORLD, or they become lost within the Fae Wood and are made Servants of the Unseelie Court.

Cool?

[luke]

I hate to say it, but your description sounds like "situation" (in the Ron Edwards sense) -- it sounds like the core conflict to the game. It doesn't sound like an overarching emotional, moral or ethical symptom that afflicts a culture.

[sanjwise]

Secret Ways?
Fey Roads?
Faerie Nature?
something like that?

I like the sound of all of those names. I'll read up a little more on my Slavic Folklore to come up with a suitable Slav-sounding name.


The rating represents your connection to the Other World - once you get to 10 you disappear on the secret roads and are never seen in the real world again (cause you are lost in Arcadia and the game takes place in the real world...)

This is exactly what I am talking about. Its a little like the Spirit Hunter rules, but rather than being a purely martial skill that helps a Great Wolf hunt Spirits, this attribute would guide a Strider through the twisted forests of the Faerie Queen. The danger being that too much time spent therein will eventually make the character unplayable.


Maybe you can use the EA rating as bonus dice to a test where your faerie nature would be useful, just like extra dice in Under a Serpent Sun? Including Circles tests to find faerie people?

Yes totally - i like the concept of bonus dice. These can be used for Tracking, Orienteering, Forest-wise, Circles tests, Herbalism...etc.


The stronger it gets, the weirder you become - maybe you get a +1 Ob to all Social tests against people who have Perception equal to or higher than 10 minus EA?

this is cool - the Loner trait from the Strider lifepath, seems appropriate as well. Although its just a character trait, perhaps if you take this 'path' it shift to a die trait?



concepts to keep in mind:

-Utility: what does the EA do for the character? Grief doesn't do much good for elves, but Need and Despair give you lots of extra dice, and Orcs have skills rooted in Hatred.

-Weaknesses: does the EA make you more vulnerable? Or does it only have an effect when it gets to 10 and takes your character out?

-Endgame: how does it end up destroying the character when it gets to 10 - this is inherent in all Emotional Attributes.

- Utility; The Fae Walker, emotional attribute gives the character bonus dice when travelling through the darkened paths of the Faerie Forest.
- Weakness; the more one Walks the Wood, the more a character looses touch with the real world. Circles tests are at ob1, Social skills are at ob1 etc.
- Endgame: Character either gets Lost or becomes Crazy.



If it's more about an ability to guide you through the woods, though, I'd go with Wises, or Natural Magic (open-ended skills) - Secret Ways, rooted in Perception - use this as a Versus test against the Strength of a spirit attempting to lead you astray in the woods.

This is also cool, but...I don't know.

Thanks so much for the help Johnstone! This is awesome.

Sanj

[sanjwise]

I hate to say it, but your description sounds like "situation" (in the Ron Edwards sense) -- it sounds like the core conflict to the game. It doesn't sound like an overarching emotional, moral or ethical symptom that afflicts a culture.

I probably haven't really described it well enough here, but we are definetly trying to build a sense that these lands are cursed somehow - and that the entire culture is affected by it. The fear, suspicion, and wariness of the average Karpic person could revolve around their proximity to, and relationship with, the curse that afflicted the Faerie World thousands of years ago. I guess a little like the Ravenloft setting in D&d, or a more Nightmarish version of Neil Gaiman's Stardust graphic novel.

How could I make it more palpable as an 'overarching emotional, moral or ethical symptom that afflicts a culture'?

Sanj

[luke]

I think you just said it: "The Curse."

[johnstone]

"The Karpic people have a complicated relationship with the dark forces they share their land with (Karpathia?). They are both fearful of and fascinated with these capricious spirits. Most people actively shun mystical sites and deep forests, while others find the lure of mystery too strong to deny. These are the folk who learn the secret ways of the Land Beyond the Forest and it's fey inhabitants."
(hows that?)

The Curse is pretty good - it sums up the opinion of non-Cursed people too.
(other name ideas: the longing, glamour)

I think +1 Ob to Circles tests with people who shun the ways is plenty penalty for opening this EA.

For extra dice:

-Make up some skills like Secret Ways or Faerie Etiquette that are rooted in this EA.
or
-Use the rules for Need and Despair when adding dice (makes the EA go up faster).


You could also say characters pick up extra tests for advancement by striking deals with the spirit beings.

If the player does a good job roleplaying the burning obsession to know the mysterious spooky lands, he'll pick up plenty of traits during trait vote, so you don't need to make anything explicit. But having the Loner trait could add +1 to starting to the EA, make sure you work out a good questionaire for that.

I like this idea, Sanj! Cool beans!

[sanjwise]

okay guys, I think I'll have to take a different route with this concept, maybe scale it down to a skill or natural magic or even use the spirit binding rules to create the mood/feel.

Dave, from our game had this to say about the thread.

Dave Lawson says:
Okay just read it. I feel like I have to agree with Luke's first take on the situation. While this may be a very important thing to you and a few others (wanderers, witches, outcasts etc...); it doesn't really seem to strike at the heart of the average karpaic individual.

An EA must be an ever present huge consideration in everything a being does.
Whereas I see far more materialistic concerns running rampants in Karpa. The refugees are worried about where they will sleep, and how to get food. They are more likely to be killed by rapacious silenese or dastardly landowners than they are to be lost to the forest. Luke's saying that it was fatal pretty much sums it up. Not as in it will be fatal for the odd person here or there but rather that everyone eventually succumbs to it and is rendered unplayable. A very pervasive influence, like the dark side for a jedi or grief for elves

In Karpa, I feel that Damek is the exception because he is intersted in t he forest. Everyone else just takes a very practical view and stays away from it.
--

makes perfect sense to me! so these rules will be for another place in our game world. As for Damek in the Karpic hills, I think if he ever learnt Spirit Binding to command the Nameless Spirits of the Ancient Paths, I could get all that I wanted without really imposing a overarching THEME on the entire campaign and most importantly imposing that vision on fellow players who don't give a rats ass about the Night Queen and her Cursed Forest.

Sanj

[The Dragon Master]

I should start this post with a disclaimer of sorts. When I read something like this, I start from the assumption that everything listed is fact, and that anything that is needed to make it work has simply not been stated yet.

That being said, I almost get the feel that you are trying to create a race here. Mabey the original refugee's from The Curse fled the Forest and lived among the races around the Forest. Possibly they even interbred with them before the effect of the Curse was fully known. Following the lines of Dwarven Greed, this could be automatically used whenever dealing with the Forest. Leading to a Steel test to determine if you are going to give in to the Call of the Fey. This at least would provide a means for some to experience this particular EA while others don't. The explanation being simpy that those without Fey blood don't feel the call.

[Thor]

makes perfect sense to me! so these rules will be for another place in our game world. As for Damek in the Karpic hills, I think if he ever learnt Spirit Binding to command the Nameless Spirits of the Ancient Paths, I could get all that I wanted without really imposing a overarching THEME on the entire campaign and most importantly imposing that vision on fellow players who don't give a rats ass about the Night Queen and her Cursed Forest.

hey Sanj,

It seems to me that the Spirit Taint rules (page 13 of the Spirit-Binding chapter) covers your idea pretty perfectly. It's just a matter of coloring it correctly. What do you think?

[sanjwise]

hey Sanj,

It seems to me that the Spirit Taint rules (page 13 of the Spirit-Binding chapter) covers your idea pretty perfectly. It's just a matter of coloring it correctly. What do you think?

Yes, man! they fit quite nice. I'd sort of colour them to appeal to the twinge of craziness that differentiates Russian folk tales vs. say English Faerie.

My character's first belief is:
--
Belief #1: I hate her, the witch Louhi. The Gods know I hate her…she tricked me and used me. But, do I also love her? She was so beautiful and so sweet…Horror, she must die. But not before she reveals to me the secret of my mothers retreat into the Inverted Forest.
--

The Witch has gone insane cause she succumbed to the Ancestral Taint that permeates the Old Forest. But she knows how to command the spirits...if my character can only get her to teach him.

Only then will Damek get to know the real truth about his lost mother.

SANJ

[Fuseboy]

I'm a bit late to this party. One aspect of the unseelie court that I found fascinating was glamour - illusions. There are so many stories of people being entertained in little huts who wake the next morning to find they've dined on dead leaves, or who follow tiny dancing revelers to wind up drowning in a bog.

It reminds me of desert mirages of water and sailors' visions of mermaids - hallucination born of desperate need.

I'd been thinking of this mostly from the perspective of the fey themselves, but it's also interesting from the perspective of those who live near the dark, old world forests they haunt. Something like Longing - like greed, but slanted differently to convey a desperate sense of need. Tests might arise from separation from loved ones, missing a meal, starvation, crop failure.

When it tops out, your longing gets the better of you and you're helplessly drawn to the midnight sounds of revelry, never to return.

[sanjwise]

Mike!

I'm glad you dropped into the thread. Maybe this can be a future project to develop once I move to Toronto? Burning Faerie Tales?

I love that idea...(Tests might arise from separation from loved ones, missing a meal, starvation, crop failure.) the more time you spend away from the safe confines of the villages, out in the wilds where the faerie hold sway, the more suceptible you are to fall victim to the glamour. Cool.

Read Stardust, by Neil Gaiman. Its awesome.

Sanj

[alexmegelas]

I'm a bit late to this party. One aspect of the unseelie court that I found fascinating was glamour - illusions. There are so many stories of people being entertained in little huts who wake the next morning to find they've dined on dead leaves, or who follow tiny dancing revelers to wind up drowning in a bog.

It reminds me of desert mirages of water and sailors' visions of mermaids - hallucination born of desperate need.

I'd been thinking of this mostly from the perspective of the fey themselves, but it's also interesting from the perspective of those who live near the dark, old world forests they haunt. Something like Longing - like greed, but slanted differently to convey a desperate sense of need. Tests might arise from separation from loved ones, missing a meal, starvation, crop failure.

When it tops out, your longing gets the better of you and you're helplessly drawn to the midnight sounds of revelry, never to return.

Hey - Alex here. I'M GMing the game that Sanj is referring to...

Thanks for these thoughts Mike! This is very like what I was envisioning the Dark Forest to be... Filled with an alternate level of incredibly complex motivations. So far, we've interpreted the relationship rule to allow for the beginnings of a complex tapestry to get developed around the characters - introducing various factions who will hopefully be invoked in the Forest.

Looking forward to it!