Spiders in a Duel of Wits

[Verrain]

OK so Spiders have the Alien trait which causes non-spiders to be at +2 Ob when trying to use social skills against a spider.

So in the Arena combat with Tobias, I interpreted this to mean that he would have to make an Ob3 test to knock of a point of BoA and then one after that for each additional success. Does that look right?

[jchokey]

OK so Spiders have the Alien trait which causes non-spiders to be at +2 Ob when trying to use social skills against a spider.

So in the Arena combat with Tobias, I interpreted this to mean that he would have to make an Ob3 test to knock of a point of BoA and then one after that for each additional success. Does that look right?

Wow... interesting questions. It seems to me that in a DoW between a non-spider and a spider, the +2 Ob to the non-spider would be applicable only if the stakes involve having the spider taking a specific course of action, or a *spider audience* taking a specific action. I only took a brief glance at the Arena combat and question and it appears that this is indeed the case.

However, imagine a situation where a human and a spider are arguing before an audience composed entirely of humans, and the conflicting stakes involve persuading that non-spider audience to take a specific action. In that case I don't think the human should suffer a +2 Ob penalty. Why not? Because ultimately, the human is trying to persuade other humans by beating the spider in argument... not the spider himself. The +2 Ob. should only apply if the human's ultimate goal was to persuade the spider himself (or a spider audience).

Or that's what I think. But I might be wrong.

[Verrain]

I would agree with that assessment, jchokey. Alien would only come into play when trying to convince a spider.

[luke]

This has been caught and fixed in the second printing of the Monster Burner (which is available now from Key20).

[Verrain]

So having already bought a first printing of the Monster Burner, perhaps you will place that fix in the errata for your loyal customers as you did before. Else I ask someone with more ready cash than I to please bestow the wisdom contained in the newly printed tome upon me.

[luke]

yeah, sorry. i realized that. Busy now. Will get to it soon!

[jchokey]

This has been caught and fixed in the second printing of the Monster Burner (which is available now from Key20).

What is the "This" that has been caught and fixed?

[Verrain]

When the decision to reprint the Monster Burner was made Luke and all the elves in his workshop and several imps from the board combed through the Monster Burner for any traits that either made no sense or were now terribly unbalanced under the Revised rules. Apparently, the Alien trait was one of those and it now has a different mechanical effect which I hope someone will tell me one of these days.

[Dwight]

I would agree with that assessment, jchokey. Alien would only come into play when trying to convince a spider.
I'm still struggling with this with Primeval Peril because the in-game origins of the +2 Ob there it is closer to Alien that Enmity Clause. I don't see Alien nearly as clear-cut as you do because of actions like Incite are much more directed at the opponent in the DoW than the audience.

EDIT: That means I am also very interested to see the clarifications for Alien.

[Thor]

Sorry guys. Luke did all those updates by himself in his cave. The only person who knows what Alien looks like now is Luke. And he's crazy busy. Like, "sorry, y'all, gotta cancel this scheduled game," busy.

My suggestion is that you come to an agreement on what you think it should be and go ahead and play it out.

[luke]

I don't even have copies of the new books yet! Yah!

[jchokey]

OK, just to make sure I understand. The 2nd printing of the Monster Burner that's now available includes new changes and errata that are *not* the same as the Monster Burner errata currently located on the wiki?

[Verrain]

Correct. Though Abzu above seems to indicate that adding those changes to the errata is somewhere on his copious to do list.

[Thor]

Yes. The errata on the wiki will be updated. We don't want to screw anyone that bought the book.