Discussion: fop-on-fop action!

[Tobias]

Here's a thread to discuss the fight between me and countercheck's fops.

[Countercheck]

Which of us is fop 1, and which is fop 2?

[Tobias]

Sirrah, I would think it abundantly clear You certainly shan't be #1!

[Countercheck]

If by number one, you mean the first to fall, then I am forced to concur, much as it pains me to agree with anyone who can simultaneously lay claim to the parentage of a mule and the grooming of a camel.

[Tobias]

I'm sure you've been forced to do a lot of regrettable things in your life; one of these must have been agreeing with your father and brother in that latest division of your famility's wealth and the commesurate pain involved in such complex family situations as you've just sketch and can justifiable be called an expert in!

[Kublai]

I voted for whoever scripted that Feint! Ouch!

[Countercheck]

I am falling more and more out of love with rebuttal.

[Countercheck]

Wait... how did you get 6 dice? You have sword 3, and you fork in another die for brawling, that's only 4 dice.

[Tobias]

So true! Totally had my spearman in mind, apologies! I re-rolled and got 3s.

[Tobias]

So, what did we learn?

1. That unarmored combat between fops makes a lot of wounds - and is fun! (the lack of skill also 'prevents' Mark hits, which would end the fight damn quick)

2. That someone who's losing the DoW will likely Dismiss to at least get a hefty compromise before going out - how do you deal with that?

3. That bidding for initiative might help greatly, since getting that first wound in is paramount (or at least highly important).

4. That relative weapon ranges are a Big Deal when positioning

5. That reflexes-4 combat is much harder than reflexes-5 (compared to my spearman - perhaps not a good comparison), IMHO.

[Yagathai]

Really? I'll take my Reflexes 4 troll against your Reflexes 5 spearman, if you like. ;)

[Thor Olavsrud]

That someone who's losing the DoW will likely Dismiss to at least get a hefty compromise before going out - how do you deal with that?

Rebuttal and Obfuscate both defend against Dismiss. If you can stop the Dismiss, your opponent Hesitates and is a sitting duck. Of course, knowing that, your opponent might script a Feint instead of a Dismiss...

The simple fact of the matter is that the Duel of Wits is intended to foster compromise. It is deliberately difficult to win a DoW without offering compromise. It can be done, but it requires a masterful performance.

[Tobias]

Answering my own #2 - make sure you can obfuscate! (which can tricky for persuasion-based duelers)

Edit: crossposted with Thor. Indeed, it seemed a (good) design move to me as well. Rebuttal isn't quite 'good enough' for me, since the power advantage of dismiss will likely knock off a few BoA anyway. Obfuscate has the advantage of stopping it cold, if you win. And yes, getting hit by feint at that time would hurt!

[luke]

I may have missed something, but Mike, why weren't you using Two Fisted Fighting Training to do Block and Strikes?

-L

[Countercheck]

I did, actually, at the beginning. Until I realized that our skills were so low that I had no chance of hitting and blocking at the same time. Not enough dice. Not while closing, anyway. And by the time I realized this, Algy had already been hit, and that +1ob was MASSIVE. So he needed to dance in as close as he could. The big mistake I made was trying to shake it off. =) I should have just gone for the stabbing.

To be specific. I could have up to four dice. Strike and block means I need to split them, so I end up with three offensive and two defensive (one for my 'shield'). Since I was trying to close (I wanted to be able to stab with my dagger), I got a +1Ob to all of my rolls. Which meant my offensive rolls were three dice against Ob2 and I needed to roll successes on both my blocking dice to reduce his attack even by one.

Since that was pretty unlikely, I decided it would be better to script a lot of avoids, and dodge in as close as I could It worked, too.

[luke]

Hm. I would have stayed Optimal, used my knife as a 1D shield, scripted Block-and-Strikes and carved him up.

[Countercheck]

Yes... in retrospect, I agree that would have been best. But I had some idea that I could somehow close, lock his blade, and then stab him to death quickly. It was a silly idea =P My first fight ever.