The Advancement System

[Durgil]

I was trying to describe how Advancement in Burning Wheel worked here (http://www.harnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3811) on the HârnForum (http://www.harnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3811) earlier today when I realized that I don't really understand how the Aptitudes work. I also don't see how a character can perform a challenging task when it demands more successes than the number of dice thrown, except for in the case of open-ended rolls? Sorry if I'm being a huge rock here, but could someone please explain these to?

[luke]

Aptitude is the number of times you need to try something before you get the actual skill (and drop the double obstacle penalty). And you don't need a mix of tests, like full-blown skills, character's simply need a number of tests equal to their Aptitude

Remember, you don't need to pass these tests, only attempt them. Pass or fail, you earn the test toward advancement.

(Perception stat tests are not tests toward your Aptitude toward learning a skill).

-Luke

[Durgil]

Remember, you don't need to pass these tests, only attempt them. Pass or fail, you earn the test toward advancement.
So, you're saying that to get above an exponent of 5, a player has to have their character attempt something that they know they have absolutely no chance of succeeding at?

[luke]

Yup.

[Lxndr]

Barring Artha expenditure, of course. Artha successes, or extra Artha dice, don't count. In addition, if you have the Astrology skill, every single one of your tests could be made slightly open-ended, if that's what you want.

[luke]

yup

[Henri]

This is a little bit of a thread hijack, but it seems like some of your stats are going to be really hard to raise, since you don't roll them that often. For example, agility. In character creation its super-important for determining the root of lots of skills, and in character advancement its important for determining aptitude, but you rarely do a basic agility test. The same is true for forte.

So it seems to me that if you want to be "munchkiny" and you are thinking long term, during char gen you want to put lots of points into agil and forte, and then just raise your speed and power in game by doing tests, since its pretty easy to raise a stat that is low.

Am I missing something or is this correct?

[Kublai]

No, you pretty much understand what it will take to advance stats. One method is to definitely boost the hardly used Stats - especially Agility - and cut back on the often used ones. However, there is a built-in balance towards this method, so it can't be called too "munchkiny." I mean, if you get in a fight and some Stats are 3 or less, you're gonna be dropping fairly easily. Yet, if you can manage to survive the time it takes to advance those weaker stats, you deserve praise!

I personally take these things into consideration all the time when I make characters. For instance, my Sorcerers usually only have a Will and Forte of 4, since I know I will be testing these all the time. I find it much more important to have a higher Perception and decent physical stats rather than a pumped up Will and Forte.

[Mulciber]

So, you're saying that to get above an exponent of 5, a player has to have their character attempt something that they know they have absolutely no chance of succeeding at?

And since tests only count when they're story significant--you're risking (life/relationships/something) to improve your stats. BW's so easy to drift (in Forge parlance)!

[Durgil]

If a player spends Artha to make the normally impossible possible, by making the roll open ended, then the task would be both challenging and achievable, right?

[Lxndr]

Yes. Same with doubling dice and/or adding extra dice.

[Juicetyger]

Just figured it out. Thanks.