Bidding for Lightning Strikes... Volley 0?

[LordSmerf]

So a question came up this afternoon as we made use of action bidding for initiative for the first time. The specific situation involved a character with B4 Reflexes scriptin two actions for V1, and one each for V2 and V3. Following the stated bidding rules i bid my last action (the one in V3) and was unopposed. This leaves me with 3 Actions, one of which was a Lightning Strike. The question that came up was: does the lightning strike count as being scripted on V1 which means that you have to push the other two actions to V2 and V3 respectively, or instead does it count as being scripted on some Temporary V0 which allows you to distribute the two actions where you choose (possibly in V1 and V2)?

The V0 idea seems supported by the fact that initiative is bid for first strike in an Exchange, not for any Volley while the V1 idea seems supported by the idea of continuous time. If there is a volley that exists only when bidding for initiative it seems to be creating a break in the flow of time. You are essentially taking the idea that V1 immediately follows V3 in terms of time and saying, "Well, sometimes there's a little extra time, but it only occurs between these two Volleys and no other.

I hope i've made my question clear. The V0 idea seems to be supported in the text (Specifically, the first example takes a B5 Reflexes character, bids one for initiative and then says "The three remaining actions are placed in V1, V2, and V3 respectively" [rough paraphrase] without making it explicit whether this is without option or by player choice.

Thanks for the answers.

Thomas

[luke]

Lightning strike actions go first (and unopposed) in the Volley they are bid (the one chosen by the player).

So if you bid to go first in Volley 1, then your action happens before all others in Volley 1. Then everyone else goes, then V2 and V3 happen as normal.

Does that help?

[Lxndr]

So it's Volley 0.5, 1.5, or 2.5, sort of.

If you want to look at it that way.

[Mulciber]

Hey fellas,

Okey. Here was our understanding of what's going on: You bid at the beginning of the exchange, and you win your action fires either before anyone else goes or after.

Characters who spent actions bidding divide their remaining actions evenly among the three volleys.

The Burning Wheel: FRPS, p. 77, 6th paragraph

Our difficulty was whether the lightning action was considered one of the remaining actions for purposes of this division or not (i.e., Thomas wanted to say the lightning action wasn't one of the remaining actions so he could Acquire in the Lighning action and shoot the first action of the first volley.


It is utterly clear in the book that one bids for initiative at the beginning of whichever exchange, not on a volley-by-volley basis.

BUT, your idea to replace every instance of the word exchange with volley on p. 77-8 is a much better rule.

1) It Avoids our difficulty.

2) It is consistent with your other form of script editing: burning later actions to change ones current to this volley.

3) It means that if you're a slow bastard anyway (<4 Reflexes) you just don't have it in you to do iajutsu/quick draw/lightning act.

That's really cool. So I say you just call this one an errata and add it to Annual.

Speaking of which, is that going to be where you release the Duel of Wits, the Resource ability/stat/attribute, and Enchanting? [/nosy] Thanks,

Best,
Will

P.S.-This is really a great game. (So much depth.)

[luke]

Our difficulty was whether the lightning action was considered one of the remaining actions for purposes of this division or not (i.e., Thomas wanted to say the lightning action wasn't one of the remaining actions so he could Acquire in the Lighning action and shoot the first action of the first volley.

He can only do this if he would normally have two actions in the volley.

So if he had a Ref B4

1st Action: Lightning Bid Acquire
2nd Action (which would be everyone else's 1st action): Fire

2nd Volley:
Pistol Whip

3rd Volley:
Hesitate (due to bid)

Hope that helps
-L

[LordSmerf]

Luke, your second post quite answers our question. Thank you very much.

Now, i have a second, less urgent question. If you get the chance i would love to hear your reasoning as to why you decide to bid at the beginning of the exchange as opposed to allowing you to bid for initiative at the same time you could normally rescript actions for a Volley (before anything is revealed.)

Oh, and i must say: mad props for the Mount Burner, i really like it. Nice and slick, easy to use. My 7 year old Destrier with Aggressive x3, Man-Killer, Brute, and Ornery is going to be a joy to play...

Thomas

[luke]

Now, i have a second, less urgent question. If you get the chance i would love to hear your reasoning as to why you decide to bid at the beginning of the exchange as opposed to allowing you to bid for initiative at the same time you could normally rescript actions for a Volley (before anything is revealed.)

Two reasons: Simplicity and fairness, really. Simplicity just to keep everything extra complicated, like bidding, at the head of the volley. Fairness, because bidding is a powerful tool and to be fair we've got to allow other players to bid against the bidder. Given the constraints of the scripting system, this can really only be done at the beginning of the exchange.

I don't know if I contradicted myself up there, but you can bid for first action in 2nd and 3rd Volley. You just announce what you're up to before scripting is announced (so your opponent may counter-bid if he so desires).

Oh, and i must say: mad props for the Mount Burner, i really like it. Nice and slick, easy to use. My 7 year old Destrier with Aggressive x3, Man-Killer, Brute, and Ornery is going to be a joy to play...

Got rather lucky, eh? Well, may he never bite your toes, only your nose.

;)

-L

[LordSmerf]

A little more clarification if you will then: It's pretty clear that only one character can get a Lightning Strike per Volley. Is it possible for me to bid for one in V1 and then someone else to bid for it in V2. If neither of us are opposed can we each get a Lightning Strike on the appropriate Volley? Or is there just one Lightning Strike allowed per Exchange and the winner picks which Volley to strike on?

Also, i don't know if it's been mentioned but Will and I have been doing quite a bit of mock combat recently, and the more i use Scripting, the more i like it... The balance of scripting, and knowing when to sacrifice actions to Avoid adds a lot to the game for me...

One more quick question while i'm thinking about it. If i have a mount with Brutal Brawler (the Legendary Trait) does that allow that mount to Throw and change Stances? Because that's incredibly cool...

Thomas

[luke]

A little more clarification if you will then: It's pretty clear that only one character can get a Lightning Strike per Volley. Is it possible for me to bid for one in V1 and then someone else to bid for it in V2. If neither of us are opposed can we each get a Lightning Strike on the appropriate Volley? Or is there just one Lightning Strike allowed per Exchange and the winner picks which Volley to strike on?

Yes.

Also, i don't know if it's been mentioned but Will and I have been doing quite a bit of mock combat recently, and the more i use Scripting, the more i like it... The balance of scripting, and knowing when to sacrifice actions to Avoid adds a lot to the game for me...

glad you like it.

One more quick question while i'm thinking about it. If i have a mount with Brutal Brawler (the Legendary Trait) does that allow that mount to Throw and change Stances? Because that's incredibly cool...


I don't see why not, we allow animals to use stances, but you should really talk to your GM about it. There might be a Riding or Animal Husbandry test involved.

Also, you might want to be careful with that monstrous horse of yours. Don't force your GM to just shoot it with a longbow in order to create a challenge for you and it. Remember, the character is the protagonist here, the horse is simply part of his kit.

-L

[LordSmerf]

Maybe i'm missing something here, but your "Yes" response seems to support to mutually exclusive positions. First that there can be two lightning strikes in one exchange, and second that there can be only one. Maybe my position wasn't clear. Is it possible for me to bid an action to Strike first in V1, no one opposes me, then someone else also bids an action to strike in V2, if they are unopposed as well do we have one Lightning strike in V1 by me, and a second in V2 by someone else?

As to the Horse being a challenge (I think i'll name him after one of the Greek Graces by the way) i don't think he'll have trouble in combat, but can you imagine the trouble an Aggressive x3 horse who is mad at the world could cause you in town?

Thomas

[Kublai]

Is it possible for me to bid an action to Strike first in V1, no one opposes me, then someone else also bids an action to strike in V2, if they are unopposed as well do we have one Lightning strike in V1 by me, and a second in V2 by someone else?

Yes, there can be multiple Lightning Strikes by different characters if they fall in Volleys unopposed. I see no reason why we couldn't have as many unopposed Lightning Strikes as we wanted to heap into an Exchange.

Why couldn't I have a LS against one target, and another player have an LS against the same or different targets? As long as they don't effect each other, there is no problem that I see. It's only when somebody opposes a LS does it matter, as far as I can tell.

[luke]

sorry. forgot to edit the quote. should read:

A little more clarification if you will then: It's pretty clear that only one character can get a Lightning Strike per Volley. Is it possible for me to bid for one in V1 and then someone else to bid for it in V2. If neither of us are opposed can we each get a Lightning Strike on the appropriate Volley?

Yes.

[Mulciber]

Hey, thanks, guys.

That completely cleared up our confluxion.