Things that I love about Burning Wheel

[luke]

Linked Tests
• Linked tests in Burning Wheel serve the dual nature of being a valid test for any purpose needed and the possibility of handing over a bonus (or penalty) to a friend. In Burning Empires, because of the way they're structured, people get too tied up in the advantage die. In Burning Wheel, they can serve a purpose even if you don't grant that die. That's cool.

Light Wounds (best wound evar)
• Having taken many, many Light wounds (across multiple sessions and fights in two different on-going campaigns), I can honestly say that I love taking Light wounds in a fight. In fact, it's just not a real battle unless I take a Light wound.

Resources Lifestyle tests
•*Something so seemingly mundane that fuels adventure (and darker deeds) like gas on a grease fire. I relish lifestyle tests! And both of my characters currently have a Resources of 0!

Greed Emotional Attribute
•*I'm playing an Elf to my friend's Dwarf right now and I'm terribly jealous of his Greed. Grief is awesome, but Greed is freaking amazing. He's constantly at war with his own emotions. So much conflict!

Practice
•*Such a satisfying mechanic. Combined with lifestyle tests, practice really helps give me the sense of an epic arc with a smooth passage of time. Also, it fills in the gaps of advancement so neatly!

Range and Cover
•*I think my Elf is my first dedicated Range and Cover character. These rules are so, so, so much fun. For one-on-one duels or massed chaos, they rock my socks and keep me on the edge of my seat!

Advancement
• The way advancement drives conflict is so much fun. In both of our games, we get mad at our GMs if they don't test us and give us disadvantages! How else are we going to advance?!

:)
-L

[stormsweeper]

I thought you were going to mention Fourth Horseman cursing his dice and casting them into the trash can.

[JamesD]

Ok, I agree on every other point but I'm unclear on the lifestyle test being all that saucy. In fact, our mostly noobie group have thus far neglected them. Perhaps we can have some BWHQ examples? :)

[luke]

Oh, sure, you can ignore them. But then your game isn't about the life of an adventurer. I love games that are about the lives of adventurers!

Check out the Si Juk threads in Playing the Game for some great examples.

[JamesD]

Check out the Si Juk threads in Playing the Game for some great examples.

Yes, I found those very inspiring for the fun to be had with circles and resources in general. I guess that's an excuse to re-read them to see what you've done with lifestyle rolls :)

[Paul B]

Well...shoot. Now I have to pony up for BW.

p.

[JamesD]

Well...shoot. Now I have to pony up for BW.
p.

Do you say that because you have just read some Si Juk posts? If not, they are great!

[Paul B]

Two, no three, three reasons:

1) To gain a better grasp of the processes that led to Burning Empires (and I want details on how linked tests are supposed to work!)

2) Because I want to run a fantasy game at some point and can't stomach the idea of diving back into Exalted right now, and

3) Because I've got some money sitting in my Paypal account burning a hole in my pocket.

Just finished the order with Key20. Go buy yourself something pretty, Luke.

p.

[rafial]

Yes, linked tests are very cool *smiles*

[JamesD]

heh...fair enough. I picked up BE to learn about the scene economy, so I know where you are coming from.

[Kudzu]

The thing I like most about BW is the characters you create with it.

We're about to launch our new BW Old Skool game, and we just had the final character posted to the thread on our local RPG forum where we've been discussing it (NOTE: we do a lot of our BW-specific discussion over there to help us pimp BW and get more local gamers interested in playing it with us!), and I couldn't be more excited about the start of a new game:

http://www.nwarpg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10441#10441

In relevant part, I wrote:


And that may be one of the things that keeps me in awe of BW, or maybe I've just been lucky to play with some great players lately (or both!): that it allows people to create characters that I enjoy watching in action as much as I enjoy running my own. And that's true even though each of these characters fairly easily fits into a fantasy RPG archetype: the wizard's apprentice, the young street rogue/thief, the young knight, the young (by Elven standards!) Elf out to experience the rest of the world for himself (in D&D terms, sort of an Elven cleric).

All of that (and much more, of course) is why I stand, slack-jawed, in awe of Luke and crew and what they've wrought in The Burning Wheel, this tool that empowers US to make the AWESOME happen.*



And I mean every fucking word of it.

Steven

* for bonus AWESOME from the final session of the BW game we just ended, see http://www.nwarpg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10181#10181, if I do say so myself. :)

[sanjwise]

My list:

1. Duel of Wits. I have a character where one of his Beliefs is to win a successful Duel of Wits against one of his key relationships. I tried in Chapter 1 and failed miserably because I have neither skills level to defeat her nor is the character 'mature' enough. I love that such an important element in the character's future hangs on a game mechanic.

2. Skill Advancement.

3. The BIT and Artha interface.

Sanj

[Z-Dog]

BITs, but most especially the B in BITs.

I distill Beliefs in BW and BE to mean:

"The most important people at the table are the players and what they want to do tonight. Everything happens because of them. They, and what they do, is the life of our game."

-----
EDIT: Also:

The whole system. Really. It blew my frinkin' mind reading it. I was ready to give up on RPG games 'cause Dnd had gotten so stale for me...and BW sucked me back in. It's been so interesting to read and play a game that has a real focus/point/issue to put across. I love how some people hate it and love it. It made me realize there are so many things to do w/ roleplaying that I hadn't thought about questioning. It brought up issues I had assumed were settled in how to play. It showed me there's better and more interesting ways to play RPGs. It made clear to me what was fluff/obstructionism in the games I use to play and how to cut that sh** out to get on to the good stuff.

I've got thousands of good words to say about BW, but for now I'll just say two: it's fun!

----------
EDIT EDIT:

OK here's three that really rock:

DoW. I go into these saying, "OK, there's NO WAY this mo fo is going to convince my NPC to do X" and by the end it, I'm convinced! Literary! I think it's like combat in most RPGs, I just feel like we played it out/gamed it out and the results stand. I never feel taken advantage of or that I'm bending my belief/disbelief.

[EDIT EDIT EDIT] PS Actually, what I really love about DoW is how you can have a meaningful conflict w/ an established NPC again and again. It's so much more interesting to keep bringing them back to 'cause more issues. Instead of just killin' 'em. Know what I'm saying?


Scene economy. I know it's BE but I tried it w/ BW and it works great. It makes things hum/gives focus/makes us think about what we want to do RIGHT NOW. Sometimes the game can just wander around at a table, but the Scene Economy keeps us thinking/planning/coordinating.

Advancement:I love the pass/fail you get to advance idea. It re-enforces an idea in movies/plays/novels/stories that doesn't seem to get re-enforced at a gaming table: failure is OK! Failure is fun! Failure leads to all kinds of interesting developments!

[TimP]

I like the character burner worksheet. That thing's seriously awesome!

[luke]

Aw, I appreciate the love guys, but this thread wasn't meant to fish for praise. I was merely posting some of my favorite things, as the creator, about the game.

Anyway, carry on!

[Kudzu]

Specifically:

1. Duel of Wits. No more need be said. ;)

2. FoRKing: for two reasons: because it allows you to scrabble for a an extra die (or two or three!) when you really need it and because, in order to do so, you have to be creative in your roleplaying and descriptions.

3. Linked tests: because finally those long no-talkie montages of prep work before the big heist (or whatever) in movies now come alive at the gaming table (and that's just a small portion of the coolosity of linked tests).

4. Advancement: you get better at the things you actually do and you have to learn (and make mistakes, etc.) in order to gain new abilities instead of them just going "poof! you know how to shoot a bow or repair spacecraft!"

There are TONS more, of course, but those are my favorites today.
Steven

[Z-Dog]

3. Linked tests: because finally those long no-talkie montages of prep work before the big heist (or whatever) in movies now come alive at the gaming table (and that's just a small portion of the coolosity of linked tests).

Yeah, I love those too. It's fun to watch the players fiddle w/ the mechanics for a couple of minutes, and then ask them, "OK, so describe to me how this all happens...who says what to whom? How'd you pull it all together?" and then it's great to sit back and listen to them pull the narration together (especially if they're trying to FoRK in strange stuff).

I also love it 'cause it provides all kinds of narration that I can go back and use as the game moves forward ("You said you secretly meet him at the park to discuss the heist. My super-villain is now trying to determine when you two meet to spy you guys out.")

I guess, in some games, we spend a lot of time fiddling to make 1 event happen...and then it goes off or it doesn't. In BW that fiddling generates all kinds of issues that make more game go.

[Thor]

I performed two linked tests in our last session (the one that inspired Luke in this post) that now rank among my all-time favorites. Both used Astrology.

In the first one, Kublai's character, Merrick the fallen cleric, was about to represent Lady Alderhart as her champion in a trial-by-combat. I wanted my wizard, Petronax to help out by giving a linked die he could use during the fight. I described pushing the furniture out of my room and rolling up the carpet, then described covering the floor with a vast, outward spiraling circle, segmented into sections filled with esoteric symbols. Then I stood in the center and spun a top, which would reveal Merrick's fortune.

I tested Astrology, with FoRKs from Write and Symbology, +1D from working Carefully and some Persona. The Ob was 3. I managed 4 successes and gave Merrick the linked die. I burst into his room in the middle of the night and told him I had peered beyond the veil of the future, and victory would be his if he set aside his holy symbol and vestments for the fight. He won too.

In the second one, we had to find the lair of a group of bandits we had hunted and killed over the past few sessions. Unfortunately, the last bandit had died from the wounds Merrick gave him before he could reveal where they'd stashed everything. And the trail was cold.

I had previously taken a lock of the bandit chief's hair. Once Lady Alderhart was freed, I had her take down the large map of the region hung on the wall of her manor. I braided the lock of hair into a string, and tied my top to the end of it. Then I walked slowly over the map, dowsing.

I tested Astrology with FoRKs from Cartography and Orienteering, +1D Advantage from the lock of hair, and some Persona points. The Ob was 3. I only managed 3 successes, and so was unable to grant Luke's character, Varda, a die from the test. However, the test was successful, and so justified allowing Luke to make a Tracking test in the first place.

I showed Varda on the map roughly where the lair must be, narrowing it down to within about a mile.

Those two examples show a lot of the things that I love about Burning Wheel.

1. Linked tests

2. FoRKs and Help

3. The way FoRKs and Help guide the role-playing and encourage the addition of color.

4. The way situation in the story leads to tests, which can lead to complications that feed back into the story.

5. Not really featured in the examples above, but Compromise and Complications (like the Enmity Clause or Tax).

[Z-Dog]

I described pushing the furniture out of my room and rolling up the carpet, then described covering the floor with a vast, outward spiraling circle, segmented into sections filled with esoteric symbols. Then I stood in the center and spun a top, which would reveal Merrick's fortune.

So *freakin'* cool!

[Paul B]

My favoritest thing about BE right now (presumably it's the same in BW; I'd know for sure if Key20 wasn't so FUCKING SLOW in shipping me my books) is the progression of Beliefs into Character Traits.

I totally, totally dig that you get paid first for fulfilling a Belief, and then get paid again when that very same behavior comes back to bite you later. It's the very first time I've ever seen airtight mechanical support for actual character development like you find in traditional storytelling media.

For me, turning XPs into higher stats and new kewl powerz -- while fun from a pure game standpoing -- never had anything to do with character development. I like watching characters change in stories, and this system pulls that off very nicely. In our current BE game, one of the players started out with an idealistic political organizer and is mutating the character into a power-hungry manipulator, all due to the character traits we agree to each time he accomplishes something else on his to-do list. It's fantastic. That sort of thing simply doesn't happen in other RPGs without a lot of self-awareness among the players and a shared goal of changing the characters from X to Y.

We have not yet voted any traits off the characters (end of Phase?) but it'll be interesting to watch Artha opportunities disappear and player reactions to that.

Anyway, that's my current favorite thing.

p.

[Fourth Horseman]

The thing I love about Burning Wheel is having my own personalized set of rules that only apply to me:

Rich: "So here is my 5 LP elven prince ranger for your review."

Luke: "You have got to be fucking kidding me! Why do you need that elven ranger lifepath, why is it every idiot has to burn a 5 LP elven prince ranger when they burn an elf, can you justify that extra lifepath with backstory? There is absolutely no potential for growth with this character. And what the hell is up with the elven chainmail, you have to be kidding me. This kind of munchken powergaming crap is going to break the game . . . "

1 week later:

Danny: "So here is my 5 LP elven prince ranger for your review."

Luke: "Looks fine, check out your RP expenditure again, I think you can afford elven chainmail."


Rich: "I want to change my last belief to, the packleader is weak, I will support a strong leader who will see to the survival of the pack."

Luke: "You have got to be fucking kidding me! You can take that belief but I want to point out, you do this every fucking game."

Rich: "C'mon man the last time I did this was three campaigns ago, the change in belief has grown out of gameplay after Thor totally nerfed my character's driving belief with a DoW and threatened to kill me, and this campaign is only going to last 6 sessions anyway."

Thor: "You suck, you do this every time man."

Rich: "Fine, I won't change the belief"

1 minute later:

Mayuran: "I want to change my last belief to, the packleader is weak, I will support a strong leader who will see to the survival of the pack."

Luke: "Cool"

Thor: "Cool man."

Yup, rules for Rich--but don't worry, you can frame me for shooting Cyrus, set the freakin' train tracks on fire, and put every gang in the city on my ass and I'm STILL gonna bop my way back to Coney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB6XEAllPiI

Fucking A.

[Judd]

I love how one failed cirlces roll to summon up a quartermaster in order to score a personal shield can lead to death and lasgun fire and melting Jihadi spies, that can lead to a meeting between the Baron and the Planetary Ambassador of the 9, brokered by the Baron's Doctor, that led to the P.C.'s buying an artificial intelligence at their disposal.

[LukeS.]

Old RPGs always suffered from artificial "no inter-party conflict" rules. With Duel of Wits, inter-party conflict can become a part of the game! Finally, you can actually play your character to the hilt without hitting arbitrary boundaries.

[Merritt Baggett]

What's wrong with you people?

Two words: Fire Bombs :D

[Taladel]

What I really love about Burning Wheel?

Let it Ride.

I always hated it when my GM made me roll my Hide check every time a guard twitched.

I also love that you don't have to use every single one of the complex rules mechanics. That really helps me tailor-make the system for my specific game.

I can't believe that I've had this account for a year and have never posted with it.

[luke]

Welcome Taladel! Post more!

[zipht]

What I really love about Burning Wheel?

Let it Ride.

I always hated it when my GM made me roll my Hide check every time a guard twitched.

Yea Let it Ride really changed how I looked at RPG's in play.. so much of my past game time has been on useless rolling.

But what I love about Burning Wheel? How much action I can get done in 2 hours.

[pseudoidiot]

But what I love about Burning Wheel? How much action I can get done in 2 hours.

That is so very true. I'm in a BW game now that meets every other week for 4 hours, a D&D game that meets every other week for 6 hours, and an Exalted game that meets every other week for 6 hours. And I consistently feel like we accomplish much much more in the BW game, even when the party's been split up and the spotlight has to move around a bit. Before playing Burning Wheel I would never have felt like 4 hours was enough to have a fulfilling session.

[Yagathai]

BW cured my bunions! It keeps my silver shining, and my cats regular!

[Thor]

BW cured my bunions! It keeps my silver shining, and my cats regular!

That's so going on the next belly band.

[Z-Dog]

What I really love about Burning Wheel?

Let it Ride.

I always hated it when my GM made me roll my Hide check every time a guard twitched.


Ya, gotta third or fourth that one. Made me really think about how I present information to the players and what kind of options they have to overcome issues.

It seems to make everyone at the table smarter and more creative.

Also kinda replicates what you see in movies. I can't recall seeing a movie (unless it was a comedy) where the guy tries over and over and over to accomplish something the same way until he finally succeeds.

Isn't it usually something like, he tries something obvious, it doesn't work, and then, ba da dum! he tries something strange and different and THAT works?

Now that I think about it, scripted combat and DoW work that way as well: constantly trying out different strategies (and if you do predictable stuff over and over the enemy hands you your ass!).

That's what I calls smart RPG designing, Luke!

--------

Actually, here's what I love the MOST about BW:

BWHQ guys passionate about playing games: tired of the same old, same old RPG...design game that cuts out all the BORING S#$@!^ and unlease it on unsuspecting RPG community.

Nice one, guys! Good work! Keep it up!

-----

I might add: pushing out quality products. Think we're going to get crap supplements from BWHG for the next 20 years? Heck no.

I call it the model of small scale indie design: these guys have only got enough gas in their car to go to the RIGHT destination. They're not going to dick around w/ sightseeing/color crap supplements/useless rules/revisions.

[Thor]

Thinking about this a little more, what I love absolutely best about Burning Wheel:

You can get good at it.

BW has a quality like chess. It is (relatively) easy to learn, but difficult to master.

I learn new things about playing Burning Wheel better all the time. And I'm really talking about two different things at the same time.

First there are the technical aspects: how to use stuff like linked tests or situational advantages and penalties to generate results I want. How to gain the tests I need in order to advance. There is great pleasure in things like setting up a situation in order to generate the opportunity to roll Beginner's Luck to learn a skill, while also generating a linked test success at the same time. And when that linked test die gives you the exact difficulty you need in order to give you the Stat test for advancement you need, that's just pure gold.

Second, there are the story aspects: how to write and use beliefs to their full advantage, how to vote for traits that make the game flow in a fresh and unexpected direction, how to play traits and instincts for maximum enjoyment of everyone involved.

Even more, I love that those two things are really one and the same, because the story aspects really are technical aspects that award you Artha, which is the grease that allows you to pull off things like the Stat test for advancement.

[vikingmonkey]

What do I love about Burning Wheel? Ok, get your books, flip to a random page - I love that! Flip again. I love that too! Seriously, I'm a total BW Burning Fanboy. I tried unsuccessfully to get my group into BW 9 months ago and I'm dying to try it again. I'm thinking I'm going to have to start a second group for the sole purpose of playing BW.

If I had to get specific I'd say I love advancement - pass or fail, you advance - that's brilliant. I love Lifepaths. I love that combat and DoW is built so that a player with a lower exponent can still win with crafty scripting skills. I <3 Artha. Love it. I love this idea that you actually get rewarded for, you know, roleplaying. Sure you can get extra XP (in D&D for example) if your DM is generous enough, but it's entirely arbitrary. BW has a set award system: do this, get this. Love it.

[Yokiboy]

Mike, you totally reminded me of probably what I love the most. The look and feel of the books. The two little, compact books. They're great! They're perfect to flip through, look great, feel great, and they just ooze coolness! :)