[BE: Banyan] Beliefs Workshop

[Paul B]

I'm going to focus a bit on our High Inquisitor's beliefs for the ongoing BE: Banyan (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3826)game. Inquisitor Baer is about to become the new featured FON so we're trying to dial in his stuff. I feel like I've sort of let this player's stuff fall off my radar.

Here's what I sent out to my players. I've done lots of workshopping for other players out there, so I'm looking forward to getting some of that love back.


Theme: The Church

Ideas:

* The church has taken care of me from the moment I was born. I will protect her interests, right or wrong, at all costs.
(Not solveable but it's such a hardassed position that it'll pay Fate over and over!)

* The church's moral authority is absolute, and anyone who questions it shall feel my wrath.
(Also an ongoing hardassed belief. Great for inner conflict!)

* The church is all I know, but the world is a complex place. I will seek evidence that my faith is well-placed.
(Kind of open-ended. We'd need to decide when your character was satisfied.)

* The church is all I know, but my faith in her doctrine is waning. I must decide whether to renew my faith or seek out my own truth.
(Also open-ended. You'd have to let me know when in-game events clarified this for your character.)

* My faith in the church is waning. I must seek out my own truth, starting with greater understanding of the Heresy.
(Pretty easy to start fulfilling: When you open your first rank in heresy-wise you've done it!)


Theme: Your Job as Inquisitor

Ideas:
* My moral authority is absolute, and anyone who questions it shall feel my wrath.
(Awesome hardassed belief. This will fuck up everything else you're doing, which is great!)

* My success as Inquisitor is a sham because I rely on psychology and not moral righteousness. I must hide my weakness at all costs.
(Personally, I love "dark secret" type inner conflicts. You've seen how well they pay Nyrup!)

* I deserve to be more than an Inquisitor in this church. I will increase my rank within the church, either to Cotar Fomas or Archcotare.
(This is taking a stand to make ambition a character theme. Also easy to know when it's fulfilled.)

* There are younger, stronger Inquisitors in the ranks who want my job. I must hold onto my position at all costs.
(This means you get to introduce this factor to the story, which could be very cool. It's also about jealousy and not ambition -- he's not called to a higher purpose, he's trying to protect his existing position.)


Theme: Your relationship with Psychology

Ideas:

* I am a codebreaker and I'm ashamed of it. I'll clean up my act and follow the Warrior's Code.
(Again, dark secrets rock.)

* The Warrior's Code is complete crap. Anyone who waves it in my face will be shown the truth.
(This is a "hit me right here in the face" belief, which I think is fantastic. There's only one other known psychologist on the planet, and she's a hardcore Warrior's Code follower.)

* Psychology is God's hand working through me; I am a divine vessel. It is my obligation to cure wickedness where I find it, and create righteousness where none exists.
(Hey, Baer's gone bonkers! This is license to go out and zot anyone and everyone, including other PCs. Get paid every time you zot someone!)


Combining conflicting beliefs
You can probably see some very intense, potentially very cool combinations of these beliefs:

* Absolute church morality, absolute personal morality, I'm a dirty codebreaker!

* Meet with the heresy, protect my job, defy the Warrior's Code!

* Protect the church's interests, I'm a sham Inquisitor, I'm a divine vessel!

p.

[Bearly Audible]

Sure Paul, kill off my guy so you don't have to help me with my beliefs. :-P

[Paul B]

We can do your guy next. Post up what you already have for the new crime guy and/or the Sodalis Captain.

p.

[Thor]

My questions:
1. What interests of the church are at stake or in danger right now? What do you have to do to see them protected?

2. Who has put the church's moral authority in jeopardy? What do you plan to do to resolve it?

3. What is it that would definitively assure you that your faith is correct or incorrect? How do you plan to put it to the test? Same question for the church's doctrine.

4. What do you have to do to learn more about heresy?

5. Who's questioned your moral authority? What are you going to do to them?

6. Who knows your weakness? What are you going to do about it?

7. Which do you want to be, Cotar-Fomas or Archcotare? What's the first step to making it happen?

8. Who's the younger, stronger inquisitor that's threatening your job? What are you going to do about it?

9. How did you break the code? Who knows about it? What do you have to do to gain redemption?

10. What is the wickedness on this planet and what do you intend to do about it?

[Bearly Audible]

I was being sarcastic, but since you so nicely asked:

Murhavial (dead guy's 2nd in command):
Belief 1 - Kierillus represents the truth path of the church. I will avenge any harm that befalls him. (note: this belief will change after the next maneuver. It just needs to stay in place in order to justify him blowing away Su Ling :) ).
Belief 2 - The Sodalis is the only proper institution to run Banyon. All other military and leadership factions need to systematically be dismantled.
Belief 3 - The Sephiroth threatens the power and stability of the Church through its reasoned ideas. I must inquire further into the Sephiroth belief system to determine if it indeed the true path to God.
Instinct 1 - Shoot first, ask questions later.
Instinct 2 - Always throw a subordinate on "the grenade."
Instinct 3 - Always scrutinize the motive behind the orders.

The direction I am thinking about for Muirhavial is for him to convert to the Sephiroth and take the church military with him - thereby becoming a defacto militia group / military wing of the Sephiroth.


Crimole (new crime guy):
Belief 1 - I am loyal to the family. I will carry out their will.
Instinct 1 - If attacked, fry their brain.
Instinct 2 - Always keep a weapon on my person.

That's all I have figured out for Crimole so far. I am thinking pushing him in the direction of trying to gain leadership in the crime family - maybe even usurp Freddy and take his position.

Let me know if anyone has any thoughts that may help.

Thanks.

[Paul B]

Aaron,

Something I'd like to settle is which of your two characters you're going to play. Really you need to pick one character to focus on, and treat the other as a 2iC (which is weird, of course, because they're somewhat opposed to each other narratively).

So...Sodalis or gangsta?

p.

[Bearly Audible]

It still makes more sense for me to play the Sodalis guy. I am torn, however, since it seems that a lot of narrative goodies could come out the gangsta guy. So, I guess I have not yet completely decided.

[High Inquisitor Baer]

My questions:
1. What interests of the church are at stake or in danger right now? What do you have to do to see them protected?
They are being usurped by the uncultured masses, aka the communes are gunning for control of the world

2. Who has put the church's moral authority in jeopardy? What do you plan to do to resolve it?

The Arch Cotare is a drug abusing weakling who has forsaken the people and his beliefs (I know Paul that is not how you see it but it is how Bear sees it.

3. What is it that would definitively assure you that your faith is correct or incorrect? How do you plan to put it to the test? Same question for the church's doctrine.

Again good belief but so high reaching I am afraid it will not pay off. I guess what I am feeling is that all of these are "I believe in God" statements that are important to the char, but are so overarching they can never be resolved, and so black vs. white I have a hard time coming up with conflicted beliefs. I can dream up beliefs for an idealistic preacher all day but if it has no impact on the mechanical side of the char than it shouldn't be listed in his beliefs... Right?

4. What do you have to do to learn more about heresy?

The heresy must be wiped out of the 'verse along with the terrible worm!

6. Who knows your weakness? What are you going to do about it?

Interesting, but I don't have a weakness. Who told you I did? :rolleyes: Other than being a rule breaker the char has no real "weakesses" being a 9 LP char he is almost over built for everything other than military manuvers

7. Which do you want to be, Cotar-Fomas or Archcotare? What's the first step to making it happen?

Perhaps Archcotare, but I am really doubtful they would allow a "marked" individual on the throne!

8. Who's the younger, stronger inquisitor that's threatening your job? What are you going to do about it?

That would be my secondary XO, but I guess Paul might give me a direct enemy...

9. How did you break the code? Who knows about it? What do you have to do to gain redemption?

To hell with the code! were talking about heretics here, I did what must be done to prserve the utter foundations of the church and my own life!

10. What is the wickedness on this planet and what do you intend to do about it?

The worms are coming and they will take advantage of these lawless heretics and use them against us!


So I guess that is my response to that,

[Paul B]

Micah,

I think the idea wasn't to literally answer the questions. I was just positing a slew of ideas, and Thor offered up some questions to bring some of those belief ideas into focus.

Some specific points:

Of course your character has weaknesses, but they're up to you to define them. Those weaknesses don't have to be reflected in the numbers. They can be weaknesses of character, relationship stuff, stuff from you as-yet-unrevealed history, whatever. But it's up to you to decide what those are. If you truly see the character as flawless in every way, I think you're going to have trouble playing the game down the road. So go ahead and put your guy into hot water.

Item #7: Who gives a shit, really, if "they" would "allow" you to be on the throne? You want it? GO FOR IT. There is no "they." You have just as much authority as I do in making that possible or impossible. If you want to make it a goal, please do. The absolute worst that'll happen is that the current Archcotare will use Church-wise or Church Law or something to "make" it illegal. And then what? BIG DEAL. Fuck the law!

Item #3: This is the sort of belief that you'd use to create constant, ongoing tension in the character. Mechanically, each time this belief came into conflict with something else you'd get paid a PERSONA for it. Rock on! It pays better than the traditional to-do-list type of belief. We'd have to refine it so there's something you clearly believe, written in a way that I can challenge it and say "oh yeah? You still believe your faith is well-placed?"

Item #8: It's actually not my job to give you an enemy. Give it to yourself, and then give me control of it. Does that freak you out?

Item #9: I think a "Screw the code, I know what's best" type belief could pay of really well for you since you, the player, seem to buy into that as well.

It might be that your character's personal Artha economy is going to work via ongoing pursuit of beliefs (fate) and conflicting beliefs (persona). BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOUR CHARACTER PROBLEMS.

I know I'm shouting. I'm hoping it soaks in, bro!

p.

[Thor]

So make your beliefs about your answers. Here are some examples:


1. What interests of the church are at stake or in danger right now? What do you have to do to see them protected?
They are being usurped by the uncultured masses, aka the communes are gunning for control of the world

1. The Commune and its uncultured masses are usurping the interests of the church. I will destroy the Commune's power base.

Personally, I would break the belief further down into steps (discrediting so-and-so, etc.) and keep evolving the belief to milk it for Persona, but it is now fully achievable.


2. Who has put the church's moral authority in jeopardy? What do you plan to do to resolve it?

The Arch Cotare is a drug abusing weakling who has forsaken the people and his beliefs (I know Paul that is not how you see it but it is how Bear sees it.

2. The Archcotare is a drug abusing weakling who has forsaken the people and his beliefs. I will expose his perfidy and break his power.

Fully achievable now.


Which do you want to be, Cotar-Fomas or Archcotare? What's the first step to making it happen?

Perhaps Archcotare, but I am really doubtful they would allow a "marked" individual on the throne!

3. The Archcotare is a drug abusing weakling who has forsaken the people and his beliefs. I will expose his perfidy and assume his throne.

Find out whether the people will accept you or not in play. What's stopping you? You can achieve it in play.

[High Inquisitor Baer]

I am thinking through the responses above and a few things are jumping out as results from the discussion.

One is that my charactor is too flat. I have known this for a while, but haven't really delved into it until now. I am thinking of pushing this into a belief like, "I am the perfect hand of Fate, all that I do is blessed by the Wheel." Of course, nothing involving me, a human, or dice can be perfect. This leads to my blindness to failure. If I fail I cannot stand to admit or react to the failure. "Tis the wheel that guided me to failure and everything the Wheel guides me to is perfect so I must accept it"

As far as circling up my enemy how does that work? I mean don't I control him, if I circle him up? This is probably a rule knowlege thing, but I just don't understand it.

To make this one fit the narrative of the game thus far I have altered it a bit, but thanks for the help Thor

" The Commune and its leader have too far away from the sheltering church. I will bring them closer to protective confine of the pasture known as secular democracy."


I am thinking about the code violator thing as well, perhaps, "Fate blessed me with this gift and as such anything I accomplish with it is Fate at work rolling the great wheel. It shall not be interfered with by the rules of the masses!" Rough but I can work on it later when I am not at work

WELL am I getting it?

[Thor]

As far as circling up my enemy how does that work? I mean don't I control him, if I circle him up? This is probably a rule knowlege thing, but I just don't understand it.

No. By Circling him up, you get to define certain characteristics (like what sorts of things he knows, his disposition toward you, where he's placed, etc.). But once you've brought him into the game world, he belongs to the GM, within the boundaries you established in your roll. If you fail the roll, the GM gets to set his own parameters.


" The Commune and its leader have too far away from the sheltering church. I will bring them closer to protective confine of the pasture known as secular democracy."Better. I would identify the exact person you want to bring over, like the Executive Official.

You do yourself a disservice if you make your Belief vague or ambiguous. This is a goal that you are going to shoot for and try to accomplish. Make sure the goal drives your play during a maneuver and you earn a Fate point. Accomplish your goal and you earn a Persona point and rewrite your Belief.

Beyond all that, by being specific you give Paul a lot more help in understanding what's going to interest you and what you're going to shoot for in play. That means a better story and more fun.


I am thinking about the code violator thing as well, perhaps, "Fate blessed me with this gift and as such anything I accomplish with it is Fate at work rolling the great wheel. It shall not be interfered with by the rules of the masses!" Rough but I can work on it later when I am not at workSame issue as above. You're just shy of where you want to be. You've got your ideological statement. Now you need to make it concrete. Who or what about the masses is interfering with Fate. And, what exactly are you going to do about it? Are you going to slaughter those who are standing in the way of Fate? Convert them? Manipulate them into giving you what you want? Whatever it is, put it in the Belief!

[Paul B]

Sweet.

p.

[Bearly Audible]

No. By Circling him up, you get to define certain characteristics (like what sorts of things he knows, his disposition toward you, where he's placed, etc.). But once you've brought him into the game world, he belongs to the GM, within the boundaries you established in your roll. If you fail the roll, the GM gets to set his own parameters.


So does this mean that the criminal/mule that I circled up and developed a relationship with is actually not a character under my control that I can choose to play instead of my X-O???? (Wow, that was a long sentence, sorry).

[Paul B]

So does this mean that the criminal/mule that I circled up and developed a relationship with is actually not a character under my control that I can choose to play instead of my X-O???? (Wow, that was a long sentence, sorry).

We've been playing very fast and loose with the NPC rules. I've already got three of my own folks to actively run, so it's seemed expedient (and good for the game) to let you guys run your own NPCs. But by the book, all the NPCs are under GM control.

I've been thinking about your gangsta as a second Second-in-Command. The game allows players who have lost their FONs within a Phase to continue playing in that Phase via their 2iC. Murhavial has been your 2iC the longest, but I know you really really like the gangsta.

So, in our game, I'm bending the rules a bit but you will need to choose one or the other. The other guy could become your active character's new 2iC (if you can come up with a good story rationale for a Sodalis Captain and a crook to be pals).

p.

[Bearly Audible]

I would actually prefer, since it would be MUCH more interesting narratively, to play the gansta as my primary character and work in the x-o as his 2nd. Believe it or not, I think I can make that make sense. However, I want to play within the construct of our bastardization of the rules and am unclear from your last post if you are saying this is kosher. Please advise.

[Paul B]

Totally kosher by me. Your gangsta actually did more in the service of Kierellus than your 2iC ever did. I think, if you choose to play Crimole, you're basically saying that the heresy was more important to him than the Sodalis and the Mundus Humanitas.

p.

[Bearly Audible]

Agreed, it was. I am looking to have the 2iC defect from the Mundus and actually convert to the Sephiroth - and, oops, he takes the guns with him. hehehe. Really gonna have to work on that one to make it even remotely believable, and therefore possible.

[Paul B]

Actually...no. You guys took the "theocratic institutions" faction this phase. You can do whatever you want to with them. Convert 'em in a color scene if you'd like! They're your toy, after all.

If I can hull the lot of the criminals with a color scene, you can certainly convert the church. Narratively it's pretty much identical.

But then what? They're still a theocratic institution, and you don't have any particular sway in the heresy -- yet. So here's what you do:

1: Convert the church to the heresy. One color scene.

2: Once converted, declare yourself big boss of the heresy. One more color scene.

3: Watch Nyrup and Baer flounder as their power base and authority is taken from them. Good times!

p.

[Bearly Audible]

Definitely sounds like a chapter out of "How to Win Friends and Influence People." I should be able to have another character kill off quickly. Sweet.

[Paul B]

I love that, in our game, you guys are so busy fucking each other over that the Vaylen pretty much just have to stop by the front office and pick up the keys to their shiny new planet.

When they finally make their appearance it's either gonna be disastrous or the three of you will will shift to unified-front mode. In either case, I think getting through (most of) the Infiltration w/o a Vaylen storyline will have done its job.

p.

[High Inquisitor Baer]

Since when did Aaron become the screw your friends type?! Aaron so help me god, you try that and you'll be going through characters faster than a fat man goes through toilet paper in Mexico. The big thing your forgetting is that at this point Paul is leading you directly where he wants you! If you choose to stab your fellow humans in the back be prepared for the the hell that shalt rain down upon you! I say the criminal NPC stays in Paul's hands to do with as he pleases and your Sodalis X-O is your new character. If you wanted a heresy X-O you could've circled him up. As the X-O is not yet in charge of the Sodalis I don't think they would follow him into the gates of hell without him proving himself as their leader. These men have been trained and brainwashed under the church, to go running off to the heresy seems really weak to me. Remember none of them knew about your FoN char's connections to the heresy. Aaron remember this is not a board game where everyone is against everyone else. WE, the humans, are playing against PAUL, The Vaylen, in an effort to prevent ourselves from being hulled and skull-fucked by a protozoic worm. While our characters have personal agendas, we the players have to start thinking about stratagy beyond the manuver conflict rolls. Chilly, Aaron and Micah have to start moving as a cohesive force before Paul lays down and takes Banyan like candy from a babie. It is his goal to promote disruption on this world to prevent his Vaylen from being caught at the starport like Aaron's character did. And I don't like the idea that even with control of a faction any one of us can color huge plays like the church moving over to the heresy. We could say a large portion of the church is questioning its values but it seem to me that some roll be required. For instance, Paul you keep threatening to hull the entire criminal underground that takes some doing beyond saying it is done. You need tech to do it with, someone willing to do the hulling, and then even if you're the most loyal "family member" on the planet your not going to let someone drill a hole in you head willy nilly. I am not say you can't do it, but just like Aaron couldn't just say he had an army with tanks and guns you need the backround narrative to back it up. oh well done ranting see you on Friday.

[High Inquisitor Baer]

Whoa Paul and I must be on the same wavelength today. I started that last post before he posted his last.

[Paul B]

Micah,

Actually, on the "controlling the faction" thing it really is yours to do with as you wish. Honest. I can hull my faction (assuming Vaylen and hulling are colored into the setting at some point -- it'll cost me at least that much time to set up the narrative); you can convert yours if you want (although it'd be a hell of a thing if you and Aaron actually saw eye to eye on that). Think big! The players are thinking really, really small on that front.

The case of Aaron's Sodalis forces is completely different. For one, weapons tech has a specific in-game mechanical effect. Being Vaylen does not. For another, when he was busy building his force you guys hadn't taken control of the theocratic institutions faction yet. If you had, I'd absolutely allow you to take narrative control of the church's military (a sort of Anvil Lord, if only for the phase).

You guys spent a whole Maneuver not hitting my disposition for the privilege of taking narrative control over a piece of the setting. Maybe you don't appreciate what it cost you to do so. This is how big, sweeping storyline effects take place.

And, don't forget that everyone loses control of everything at the start of the next Phase.

p.

[Bearly Audible]

Ah yes, once again I am hindered by the apparent fact that sarcasm does not transfer well in this format.

Micah, no worries. I have no intention of unilaterally changing the church and screwing you. I am well aware that Paul is a manipulative bastard (read as sarcasm) and wants to win. I was merely postulating as to possible extremely interesting paths to take with one or the other character I have to choose from. I still believe that I can create a scenario where one becomes the others 2iC. Just sit back and watch in awe ... or point and laugh.

Paul, what is your phase end goal exactly. I can't remember and it could be very important to my plans (as I twist my abnormally long and pointy mustache).

Peace be unto you.

[Paul B]

Destroy the Church (force faction out of play).

p.