Settling the frontier, building a town

[voidweaver]

I'm new to BW (and, of course, this forum). I'm starting a game with six players; this is everyone's first time with BW, everyone has many years experience with several systems, but none focusing as much on character-driven play (D&D, Call of Cthulhu, etc). Everyone is really enjoying the game so far, and are working well with the more complex points of the system as I slowly introduce them.

The game itself is about settling the frontier in a mid-industrial setting for the newly formed government after the overthrow of a corrupt monarchy; the players are a group of ex-military and civilians with a few civilian work crews under them, set out to establish a town and mines in the mountains and eventually send resources back to the Empire while drawing new settlers in. The players are also going to have to contend with the "living myths" - all the supernatural forces and creatures driven from civilized lands long ago. I made the setting and game idea (it was originally planned for very heavily modified d20, but BW did everything I wanted, only better) with a bit of feedback from players. We've been playing various games sundays for about four(?) years, and most people are used to the GM comes up with plot and everyone follows style of play (though we started on more collaborative gaming recently in world design and plots).

We've had one character burning session and one game session (which one person missed), and the players are really enjoying the chance to plan out a town, explore and expand. Everyone's enjoying the game a lot so far, but we are having difficulty with Beliefs and Instincts, probably because of the newness of those systems. I was hoping for some advice in how to incorporate them better into the game. I've only had the chance to work real closely with only one player on beliefs so far (who is also playing the leader of the expedition) and we've gotten some good ideas with his.

Thaddeus Milner - Ex-sergeant of the old monarchy
Beliefs: Loyalty to the Old Empire
Leave no man behind
I will build the new capitol of the old Empire

Jung Braggart - Immigrant gangster turned wilderness scout
Beliefs: Slavery is unpardonable
Honest work is always better than theft
Live free or die

William Bookman - Aged scholar and cartographer
It's my duty and privilage to recover lost knowledge
It's our responsibility to educate the primitives

Finnian Leads - Crotchety field medic (Doctor’s bag? Pshh. I’ve got a bottle of whisky and a bone saw.)
No drugs/alcohol
Always follow orders
Hates frikkin' leeches

Boka Enfield - Ex-con message runner
Always look out for myself first
Hoard now, survive later

Casimir Goldhill - Overly ambitious engineer
Haven’t been able to thoroughly work through beliefs; wants land and independence (gung-ho libertarian)

Problem is, I can see how to work with Thaddeus’ and William’s beliefs, but William’s can’t very well come up for a little (the leader has most everyone working to establish the town first). My main issue is I’m not quite sure how to hook those individual beliefs into situations that result in aratha.

Another issue is, what would be a good way, given the system, to arbitrate how those workcrews do their thing? I've been doing linked tests between the engineer (architecture), the crew leader (command), and the workers (masonry, carpentry, etc).

Help, please?

[luke]

Hey man,

Thanks for coming by! Before we give you advice, we need context. Can you answer the questions in this thread:
http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4236

Answer them as briefly as you possibly can.

-L

[Verrain]

The basis of the game seems to be the founding and expanding of this wilderness town. So every player should have at least one belief focused on that, pro or con. Thus during this town building section of things everyone can get plugged in.

The rest is a pretty mixed bag. Sounds like you'd need a primitive tribe that practices slavery and leech medicine living in ancient ruins to hit them all. You might want to float these various ideas and see if you can buy in on a few of them from the group then have a belief focused on that.

[johnstone]

Thaddeus Milner - Ex-sergeant of the old monarchy
Beliefs: Loyalty to the Old Empire
Leave no man behind
I will build the new capitol of the old Empire

William Bookman - Aged scholar and cartographer
It's my duty and privilage to recover lost knowledge
It's our responsibility to educate the primitives

So maybe the laborers are the ignorant primitives, and while they are working they uncover old ruins. They are ruins of the Old Empire and must contain lost knowledge!

And maybe the uneducated primitives keep injuring and killing themselves because they don't know how to work safely when there are these ancient ruins underneath their job site.

[voidweaver]

Alright, I missed these questions.

The world was hovering around industrial revolution, but a corrupt entrenched monarchy kept things the way they’d been for the past hundred years in the face of any advancements made. Eventually, rebellion wiped out the old Empire, reforming it into a republic. Fifteen years later, the empire thinks it has the manpower to settle the wildernesses to the north. Problem is, the old legends about monsters and haunted towns aren’t as exaggerated as the citizens of the civilized lands thought.

I think the best analog would be to put the Roman Empire on the American frontier circa 1890’s. Firearms, steam power, booming industry and manifest destiny coupled with imperial military might and the drive to conquor.

There’s a few conflicts I’ve considered; the characters vs. the natives, being caught up in any wars between the Empire and neighboring nations, and more abstract conflicts; faith vs. science, tradition vs. innovation, whether the money is worth the raping the land…I’m hoping conflicts will develop as the players make choices about how they go about settling and interacting with the natives.

The area to be settled is a large valley plenty rich with resources; iron, coal, timber, and fertile land; forest to the north, hills to the south (where the players have started their town) and a large lake to the center. Mountains to the north, east, and west.

As for the name of the place, that’s up to the players. Valley, town, lake - it’s all theirs to claim.

No real antagonists at the moment, as the wilds will provide enough opposition for some time, but I’m planning on having a rogue deathless sorcerer stalking the wilds, as well as a menacing tax collector who has no tolerance for bullshit and thinks that’s all the players are doing (customs officials and at tax officials have much more power than any piddling frontier wannabe-governor could ever hope, so that should breed a few interesting conflicts when he starts saying how things are going to be done here)

Honestly not sure what magic is going to be here besides faith. I’ve been pretty vague about the supernatural intentionally to keep it mysterious. I’m not quite sure what else will fit, probably natural magic of some kind.

All characters are human to start; I will introduce a few non-humans as the game goes on, and players have the option to make characters of those races after (for whatever reason)

Resources and economy I’ll figure out what feels right after the town sets up some basic form of economy; due to the prosperity of the empire, I gave everyone a +1 to their resources exponent. The resources cycle will probably be monthly or seasonal; recommendations?

[luke]

I think your problems are pretty clear, man. You've got a neat idea, but nothing for the players to really sink their teeth into.

Your setting must have antagonists. They can be native chiefs, monsters or sorcerers, whatever they are, they're required.

The setting must also be in crisis. There's got to be something wrong. There's not enough food, winter's coming, flooding, wild fires, disease, etc. Something bad that's going on right now. Something that the players can confront and settle.

Your setting also needs people. You need to populate the town with interesting characters who are potential friends and allies. Just a handful of personalities will do -- no need to do every person. Let the players take relationships with these people. Then... put those people in crisis! They're attacked by the monster, they're set upon by the natives, the sorcerer comes for them, or their house gets washed away in the flood, they get sick, their workshop burns down, etc, etc.

Settings nice, but it's not enough. You have to provide your playes with situation: THIS is happening RIGHT NOW. Once you have that, then they'll write kick ass Beliefs and your game will fly.

-L

[voidweaver]

Okay, that puts a better perspective on things. I WAS going to let them get settled in a bit before throwing things their way so they could deal with them better, but no, being in a solid position isn't what this setting is about and doesn't create drama.

The players are off from the town exploring some ruins of a previous settlement while the workers build the town; dragon attacks and they come back to numerous wounded and splintered ruins of their proud, hard work? And have some of the survivors angry, wanting to hunt down this beast while others are about to turn tail?

[Fuseboy]

The Manticora has a suitable attitude for threatening a settlement like this. :-)

[voidweaver]

The Manticora has a suitable attitude for threatening a settlement like this. :-)

Geez, yeah; I remember reading about that in the monster burner, didn't think of how perfect it would be when the players are the people running and protecting the town, too. I'll be sure to toss that at them once they off the dragon...:evil laugh:

I think it's interesting that under the right circumstances, intellegent monsters means a duel of wits might be an effective way to drive it away (assuming that it doesn't stay to eat you anyways, of course). I did this back in D&D with an enchanter character...until the group got sick of parley and decided to attack the Ettin rather than discuss it's ill treatment at the hands of the Drow. We all died.

[luke]

Almost there, Voidweaver.

It seems like you want challenges about building the town and having it survive and adventurey type stuff.

Building the town should be hard. There should be tests involved. There should be a Resources maintenance cycle testing looming -- if you fail that test, people start starving.

During all of this, while they're trying to plant fields and build buildings, THEN have other pressures come into the mix. Confront them with the monsters and perils of frontier life, don't just crap on their hard work.

For example, Dragons are too powerful to fight. But dragons are greedy. Dragons like tribute.

-L

[ElJeffe]

So your going for a kind of Deadwood fantasy? Because the resources your town has are going to make or break it. And not stuff you could dig out of anywhere else, it sounds like you need a payoff, and a big one. Gold is the first thing that leaps to mind but mithril, silver, diamonds or any other precious object could be a draw. That immediately gives you some more conflict to work with, rival gangs trying to control and gather claims, and businesses trying to fleece unsuspecting miners.

[voidweaver]

Alright; good point. Threatening their hard work rather than attacking it outright does work a lot better...On the subject of resources tests, what would be your reccommendation on town-wide resources test? Have a resources stat for the town itself and roll that for maintaining the town and building it? I've definitely been having a lot of tests to get the town up so far, and there's already been a few people advancing skills.

The resources available to the town in the near future will be small amounts of gold, plus rich deposits of coal, iron, and some copper. Excellent idea on having rival gangs.

My name's Jonathan, by the way. Nice to meet you all, and thanks for the advice here.

[ElJeffe]

Hi Jonathan Im Jeff.

You should read the Burning Sherwood resource thread. It has some great thoughts by Thor re: Resource tests.


I'd say either go for a yearly Resource Cycle or <gasp> a monthly one. Monthly would be sick and totally represent the real peril of the frontier life, but yearly would suck because it means you have to work for a freakin year to get back taxed resources.

Monthly has the added benefit that you can work for a month and get by. Kind of like the frontier town kind of thing. Imagine your character riding crossbow on a wagon for a month, or out driving cattle. Heck even panning for gold. After that month they have some stake and can live for a while.

I was thinking you should watch a couple of movies and TV shows too,

the first two seasons of deadwood are the best place to start natch, so you can see not only how quick a frontier town can spring up, but just how complex the dynamic between people can be in it. Also Sanjuro is a great idea for a freaking BW game. While not strickly a frontier type western movie it was remade into a fistful of dollars. I could totally see a group of swordsmen or bowman switching from side to side in a gang war in a little frontier town.

[luke]

The town doesn't have any resources. The town is an obstacle. Set the obstacle to maintain this town based on what it contains -- the simpler and less populous it is, the lower the obstacle, the more industrial and populous it is, the higher.

The characters somehow have to muster the Resources dice to pass that test. They can make it on their own, find treasure, or get help from other wealthy towns folk.

Put the burden on their shoulders. Town wouldn't exist without them, right?

-L

[voidweaver]

The town doesn't have any resources. The town is an obstacle. Set the obstacle to maintain this town based on what it contains -- the simpler and less populous it is, the lower the obstacle, the more industrial and populous it is, the higher.
-L

Okay, that does make a lot of sense; I especially like putting the burden of the town on their shoulders that way. Adds to the personal responsibility, as well as ownership to the setting.

And thanks for the tip, Jeff. That pretty much solidified what loose ideas and understanding I had on how to handle town resources. I'll have to watch Deadwood too. It's been a long while since I've been in he GM chair; playing a new system isn't making this real easy, either.

[luke]

Sounds like you're doing fine, man.