Drinking, Beginner's Luck, and Forte

[Jake Norwood]

Okay, so there's only ONE skill for Men with the Root Stat of Forte. Since Difficult and challenging tests made under Beginner's Luck seem to be the easiest way to earn tests toward advancing Stats, this lonely number ONE is important.

It's Drinking.

So now I've got players going and getting horrifically sloshed (including my own character in one of our games) because that way all they have to do is try and hide it, set up stakes for success/failure that complicate or add to the story, and then off we go to (a) get sloshed and (b) cause a damn lot of trouble. Because we're drinking insane amounts every time we're never getting closer to earning the skill, only beefing up that Forte Stat.

Is this horrible cheating? Intentional? Okay? Somehow it's wrong, but nothing's as wrong as Yag's positioning with throwing the dagger to the inside then just dropping it and tackling his opponent. I mean nothing is that wrong...

But I digress.

While I'm at it, anyone else got any bright ideas on getting Forte Tests? Not too many places where that comes up unless you're a sorcerer.

Jake

[ArcheiosAggelos]

Okay, so there's only ONE skill for Men with the Root Stat of Forte. Since Difficult and challenging tests made under Beginner's Luck seem to be the easiest way to earn tests toward advancing Stats, this lonely number ONE is important.

It's Drinking.

So now I've got players going and getting horrifically sloshed (including my own character in one of our games) because that way all they have to do is try and hide it, set up stakes for success/failure that complicate or add to the story, and then off we go to (a) get sloshed and (b) cause a damn lot of trouble. Because we're drinking insane amounts every time we're never getting closer to earning the skill, only beefing up that Forte Stat.

Is this horrible cheating? Intentional? Okay? Somehow it's wrong, but nothing's as wrong as Yag's positioning with throwing the dagger to the inside then just dropping it and tackling his opponent. I mean nothing is that wrong...

But I digress.

While I'm at it, anyone else got any bright ideas on getting Forte Tests? Not too many places where that comes up unless you're a sorcerer.

Jake

I believe Luke says something in the book about giving out Forte tests at the end of an extended series of sessions to represent what the characters have gone through.

[Black Spectrum]

While I'm at it, anyone else got any bright ideas on getting Forte Tests? Not too many places where that comes up unless you're a sorcerer.

Have you looked at this thread (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4064)?

[Thor]

Drinking is fine until you learn the skill. Once you've learned it, no more Forte tests for you.

Practice is where it's at. Unless you're a sorcerer. Then you can have all sorts of fun (my character in the Burning THAC0 game has a B7 Forte now).

Running long distances, resisting drowning, and overcoming poison are also great instances to use Forte tests.

[Jake Norwood]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Kinda what I thought.

I like the drowning stuff, though. I'll have to try that. That and charges up tall hills, etc. (Pickett, anyone?)

Jake

[zabieru]

Also, is the drinking in-genre? Because that's a fantastic way for like a Three Musketeers sort of game to run, or even Fafhrd and the Mouser. But if it's messing with your concept, not so much.

[Jake Norwood]

Genre's not the problem so much as the idea that the only obvious in-game mechanic for getting tougher is excessive drinking without the skill.

:)

Jake

[luke]

It's a fantasy game! I obviously read too much Howard or something.

Forte tests are rare, but they are available. Chases for characters with equal Speed can be resolved with Forte tests, for example. Drowning or long distance swimming, as Thor mentioned. All of which have happened in our games recently.

If you're running a game and the players are abusing the Drinking Beginner's Luck, I think the consequences are quite plain.

Nothing like picking a fight with someone who's Surprise hesitation is increased and who's suffering a +1 or +2 Ob disorientation modifier.

-L

[khelek]

Don't you get a check regardless of weather not you succeed your Beginner's luck Test?

[Jake Norwood]

Yeah, you get a check either way. And if you're going for a difficult or challenging test (so that it goes to Forte and not to the skill), then you're pretty much always going to fail.

Good call on the Howard, Luke! I don't disagree at all--I'm just exploring my less boisterous options.

I'll just start trying to swim up stream, too. Nice!

Jake

p.s. A question for Luke. Why do you pronounce "Forte" "Fort," (since if it's what I think it is it's supposed to be for-tay) and why does it matter enough that you put it in text? Just curious...

[Verrain]

Because it is properly pronounced fort. Forte pronounced 'fort' is the term for one's strong point. Forte pronounced 'for-tay' is a musical term for a passage that is loud and forceful. As good Americans, we've messed up the pronunciations.

[Jake Norwood]

Nope... as far as I know the English word Fort is pronounced "Fort." Forte, on the other hand, is an Italian word that is pronounced for-tay. It is used in music, sport/classical/Italian fencing (as in "Forte and Foible"), and anything else which uses Italian or French as a lingua franca.

I mean, it's okay...there's nothing wrong with having BW specific Jargon, it just seems like a weird place to take a stand.

Jake

[Yokiboy]

You're both right, just listen to both samples here (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/forte). :)

[Jake Norwood]

...grumbles grumbles...

[Black Spectrum]

Running long distances, resisting drowning, and overcoming poison are also great instances to use Forte tests.

Actually, wouldn't long distance running or swimming be Health tests? To quote the Holy Scriptures:

"The Health attribute is derived from Will and Forte. It is used in game to recover from injury and resist the effects of pain and fatigue."

If I'm not mistaken, the Mount Burner also makes use of Health tests for that kind of stuff.

[Jake Norwood]

Well, I didn't want to go there...but yeah!

That's part of the issue with Forte...it seems to pull double-duty with health about 80% of the time, meaning that you get a Health test, not a Forte test.

Hmmm

[Kublai]

I believe for the Revision I once suggested getting rid of Health and using Forte instead. Hmmm... ::goes to Spark forum::