Thol the Lost vs Acinonyx: Commentary

[Yagathai]

Commentary, kibitzing, rules argument &c goes here.

For reference:

Thol the Lost: http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=41201&postcount=40

Acinonyx: http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=40806&postcount=35

[GreedyAlgorithm]

Thol seems to be a bit beefier than his Forte would indicate. Superficial should be B2 (Forte 3/2=1, +1=2: CB p29), then B4,6,8,9,10. Unless Tough lets you do this?

[IvanHo]

You are absolutely correct. Thanks for correcting my mistakes. I will edit the character pronto....

/Uffe

[IvanHo]

Let's use the Irony Games dice roller.

http://www.irony.com/mailroll.html

I'll send you my e-mail, you can mail me yours.

/Uffe

[GreedyAlgorithm]

You are a little more likely to tie or win initial positioning if we both have stance dice than if we both don't, especially if you choose to call-on. So we can go with both having +2. :)

That's B4+2 for you and B4+2+1(multiplier)+1(weapon) for me.

[IvanHo]

Actually you get +2D for weapon range as it is two categories longer than mine. Roll another die.

[GreedyAlgorithm]

Nope, that's only when I'm in lunging or optimal.

[IvanHo]

:) Looks like I might have a chance then....

(don't have the books handy, so I am doing this by memory (and scripting sheets))

[GreedyAlgorithm]

What do you guys think about what I said in the little white box before volley 1?

[GreedyAlgorithm]

So what are the ranges now? Charge should end up with both of us at optimal, right?

[IvanHo]

Yep, both of us in optimal, both in neutral stance, me on my back hesitating for one action. New exchange (we both gave up 4 actions).

[GreedyAlgorithm]

Aren't we both in defensive still? Or do stances revert to neutral at the top of an exchange?

Extra successes from Throw are a Strike. You have no natural defenses, I have +1 Ob for closing (we both closed so we're both on the inside now). Is that 3 extra successes or is there a default base Ob for the Throw... that... doesn't get added if you have ND? But that makes having no ND better than having a single speed die. On the other hand, if there is no base Ob, that means you can automatically put anyone who's hesitating on the ground if you're on the inside?

If it's 3 extra successes, since throws are add 2, that's a B7+ground strength, which is probably 2. The VA is 1+1=2 due to Po 7. "Only hard armor - plating and helmets - can be used to ward off the blow." Is plated leather plating?

[Yagathai]

Well, it's right there in the name, isn't it?

[GreedyAlgorithm]

I thought it was, but the guy sitting next to me claimed it wasn't. :)

[IvanHo]

You go back into neutral stance if you charge (or hesitate).

And yea, throwing hesitating people sure works.... but then again so does striking them.

I better get the lucky dice roller out. Is it possible to change the area you hit with a throw? (If so I assume you'll move it away from the chest).

[GreedyAlgorithm]

You can. And I didn't declare it originally, but if you're fine with me moving it to the head (bringing it down to I from M) I'll do so.

[Drekk]

GreedyAlgorithm, is Heave-Ho a home-burned trait? I couldn't find it in the Books or the Wiki. Just asking cuz I might want to use it! :)

[GreedyAlgorithm]

Yep. Feel free to give it a more brutal name, though.

[IvanHo]

Isn't your treatment of poor Thol with your Heave-Ho brutal enough?

[luke]

I feel like a Pollianna here, but, um, since when can an Elf start the game with a B7 Power? Are the stat caps off for the arena?

Also, what's up with all the unreviewed call-ons for Power? Call-ons must have a condition!

[Kublai]

Greedy, I thought both Yag and I made it clear the 7's were not allowed in this official tournament?

http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=826&page=4

[GreedyAlgorithm]

Hmm... I'd be glad to knock those points off, but I definitely thought starting stat caps were off. Here Yagathai answers my question about this very issue:

http://burningwheel.org/forum/showpost.php?p=40609&postcount=14

And in the list of official Arena rules, we have
12) Skills may not exceed exponent 6.
but nothing about stats.

[luke]

Thanks!

Anything on unreviewed traits?

[Tobias]

Well, retconning is a pain. (On the unreviewed traits). So whatever's happened, could stand, and we could rewrite the traits for the next bouts.

[GreedyAlgorithm]

As to unreviewed traits, I've got nothing. I had assumed it was fine because no one said anything about it, but you know assumptions...

So how do we want to do this? Worst case, vs. Thol, if we get rid of the call-on (though there's no getting rid of the threat of the call-on), the Lock would have been 2D. Next he would be at Ob 6 to Strike with 6 gray dice, which may easily have succeeded, but would have been at most a superficial, and assuming the Throw failed, the B7 Lock at +1 Ob vs B4 Po at +3 Ob is almost certain to finish it. So I'd say that result stands.

Going on, what should we do for Drekk and I? As it stands, Luke has definitely reviewed the trait and found it wanting. Tone down to only some Fight! actions? Remove entirely? Cost it at 3 or 4?

[IvanHo]

Hell yea, the result stands, I'm not going against that elf again! ;)

But I'd recommend setting conditions like: Heave-Ho: C-O for Power when dragging or lifting something heavy (to throw fx. or outside combat).

Or, rename it and give it another condition.

[Kublai]

The fight stands, of course. There's no going back in BW.

But lets tighten up that trait before your next bout.

[Yagathai]

For reference:


Custom traits are allowable (See Monster Burner for mechanics), Referee approval is required!