Adventure Design

[Mordaith]

Hi everyone,

I've been very excited about running my own BW game. I've ran a few games already, and I've been having a hard time with adventure design. I would really enjoy some tips on fleshing out an adventure. I am trying very hard to keep the focus on the PC's and their desires, but I think I am having some problems overcoming my old way of writing games. Maybe some tips on getting the players react rather than carrot and sticking them all the time.

Thanks a bundle guys.

-Mordaith

[Yokiboy]

I think the best way to play The Burning Wheel is to have the GM react to the players rather than the other way around. So the players act and the GM reacts.

If you haven't read Chris Chinn's thoughts on the subject, such as his RPG.net articles on Progagonist Play, you must! I would be happy to e-mail you a PDF full of Chris' best stuff (articles collected from his blog prior to disappearing).

TTFN,

Yoki

[Mordaith]

If you haven't read Chris Chinn's thoughts on the subject, such as his RPG.net articles on Progagonist Play, you must! I would be happy to e-mail you a PDF full of Chris' best stuff (articles collected from his blog prior to disappearing).


That would be awesome. I am sure it will answer more than a few questions.

-Mordaith

[ChrisG]

Is there anything you're having trouble with right now, in your current game? Sometimes hashing out solutions to actual problems helps connect the dots--at least that's how it tends to work for me.

[Mordaith]

Is there anything you're having trouble with right now, in your current game? Sometimes hashing out solutions to actual problems helps connect the dots--at least that's how it tends to work for me.

Well, The campaign is set in a forest roughly the size of a continent. The party consist of a Human Strider seeking acceptance by the elves. There is a Troll who seeks to become the greatest Troll Baron ever. (no one has the heart to tell him he is possibly the only Troll Baron). And there is a Elven Sword Singer who is not only the Elven princes body guard, but his Fiancé.

So the party is has some big differences. And *Gasp* some conflicting goals. Now, that is good. Right? Everyone is pretty good about not fretting over their characters needing reasons to be together. The problem for me is that I am having a hard time crafting adventure ideas as I am still trying to get everyone used to the rules.

I suppose it boils down to trying to find ways to progress the plot, engage the players, and introduce different elements of the game to them in a way that will be easy and as less frustrating as possible.

I don't know if that completely explains my problems. I will try to look over my game notes to see if I can fine point it.

Thanks again.

-Mordaith

[luke]

Here's an excellent example of Ivan setting up a cool psuedo historical game.
http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4298

Here's someone struggling with similar issues:
http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4319

Check out the answers to the various questions in those threads. Let us know (in this thread) if it helps fire your imagination.

[Yokiboy]

Well, The campaign is set in a forest roughly the size of a continent. The party consist of a Human Strider seeking acceptance by the elves. There is a Troll who seeks to become the greatest Troll Baron ever. (no one has the heart to tell him he is possibly the only Troll Baron). And there is a Elven Sword Singer who is not only the Elven princes body guard, but his Fiancé.

So the party is has some big differences. And *Gasp* some conflicting goals. Now, that is good. Right? Everyone is pretty good about not fretting over their characters needing reasons to be together. The problem for me is that I am having a hard time crafting adventure ideas as I am still trying to get everyone used to the rules.

Conflicting Beliefs are good, and should lead to some cool conflicts, however did you burn up the game together prior to making characters? Have you looked at answering Luke's World Burning Questions? I have these documented in a PDF (http://erdtman.com/holken/burning-wheel/setting/World_Burning.pdf), along with some additional notes, if you're interested?

The object is to answer those questions together with the players, in order to focus all of you on the same idea, that is the same big conflict. This should be done prior to character burning. Another trick is asking the players to create Beliefs that tie them to the big conflict, and to each other.

You can check out my notes on how my group did this by following the link in my signature. I asked the players to use one Belief to tie themselves to the backstory, another to tie themselves to at least one other protagonist. So in my own pirate-themed game, The Governor's Daughter (http://erdtman.com/holken/burning-wheel/), the protagonists have all used one Belief to tie themselves to piracy, which is our game's central focus.

First Mate Patric McGregor (http://erdtman.com/holken/burning-wheel/characters/#patric) wants to become the most feared pirate, but first a ship. He wants respect as the First Mate, and specifically from the late Jonathan Swans, which was another protagonist (now dead). Ship's Doctor Marcel den Ouden (http://erdtman.com/holken/burning-wheel/characters/#marcel) wants to ensure all the pirates are hanged for their crimes, and the love of the kidnapped governor's daughter. Lastly, the young charmer Phillip Lacorte (http://erdtman.com/holken/burning-wheel/characters/#phillip) wants to adventure to earn inspiration for his writing, and wants to bed the governor's daughter.

See how they've basically created the plot for me? I have no idea where we'll end up, but I can see that we'll have a wild fun time getting there! :)



I suppose it boils down to trying to find ways to progress the plot, engage the players, and introduce different elements of the game to them in a way that will be easy and as less frustrating as possible.

Just have stuff. Create all the cool stuff you normally would, like places, antagonists, monsters, etc. However, don't plot when and how to use them. Throw them in when the players lead the story to a fitting spot. Look at the players' BITs and plot some bangs, that is events that the protagonists cannot ignore. They should be tough choices for the player, really tough. They should groan and joke about hating you as the GM, but will love the conflict you create for them.



I don't know if that completely explains my problems. I will try to look over my game notes to see if I can fine point it.

Start by inviting your players to help you answer Luke's World Burning Questions. Then have them look over their BITs again, and request that each tie themselves to at least one other protagonist with a Belief. This can be in a positive or negative way, but it is essential! Also request that each one have a Belief that ties them directly to your game's Big Picture - that is, the overarching conflict at the center of it.

Then step back, have a look at the results. Think about them for a bit, and think of using one of the starting scenes Luke suggests, or come up with a group kicker. A kicker is a scene that starts the game with a bang, something that forever changes the protagonists' lives, something they can't just turn away from or ignore.

For my own game, the players requested the kicker. They wanted to have sunk a British ship, and have kidnapped the Jamaican governor's daughter. Holy cow, they just made the game!

Hope that was helpful?

TTFN,

Yoki

[Mordaith]

Hey everyone,

Again thanks for all the helpful tips. All the reading material I have been given has eased my worries significantly. It never even occurred to me to get the players to help answer the BW questions that Luke has provided.

Now I've got to get everyone to sit down at the same time and answer some questions. But, what about introducing a new player after all this has been done. I have a new player that may be joining in a month or so. Any advice how to incorporate them in to an on going BW game where everyone already has been synced up with the setting?

[donbaloo]

Treat it similarly to the way you treat getting the other players invested. Make sure you the newcomer is completely informed on what has happened thus far but most importantly what has been extra cool for the other players so far and the general direction the story is tilting. If the newcomer can have the discussion with everyone that would be best. Once the new player sees what all has taken place and the parts that are most important to the other players he or she can begin to get an idea of how to fit in in a way that would be most fun to them. Make sure that all are down with the new angle of drama that the new character will be introducing. Then pay attention to the things Yoki is saying. I think it would be great to open the first session right up with a bang aimed directly at the new character, one that'll have the most effect on the other characters as well. Then just let the characters sift into their roles and watch the story begin to evolve again with the new player right in the middle of it.

[Mordaith]

You know, when it's all laid out like this it seems so bloody simple! I really need to work harder at letting go of some of my preconceptions of story structure. My friend and burning wheel GM has told me more than once that BW is a game that the players need to react to, and not be sitting in the observation seats. I've heard that statement echoed here a few times now. And fear not! I think I'm slowly getting it.

Mordaith
-Trait: Slow Learner.

[Fuseboy]

Something I've found is that it really depends on your players. One group I play with has a lot of experience with GM-writes-the-plot adventures, and has created tough, characters without a lot of vulnerabilities. They sat back and waited for me to start throwing shit they'd have to dodge. I was so pumped about the BW play style I'd read about, I sat back and waited them to paint a masterpiece.

The game felt a little aimless. In my adrenaline poisoning, I'd projected what I wanted as a player onto them, and the game that resulted was aimless and unengaging. They've asked me to take a firmer hand in 'the plot'; we'll see how that goes when we reconvene.

The second group I've been playing with is very spontaneous. They created so detail during character burning it made my head spin, and have been pushing for their own goals very firmly ever since. I've had to repeatedly learn that trying to author "the plot" doesn't work at all in this kind of game. In our fourth session, it felt like game seemed to lurch out of my hands under its own accumulated momentum, simultaneously exciting and frightening, as my authorial impulses grab uselessly for a stable handhold. :-)

[donbaloo]

No worries amigo, I'd hardly call you a slow learner. I've had a horrendously painful growth curve on my journey with BW, just trying to learn to even a think a different way about my games. It took a lot of questions and a lot of patience from the very awesome people here on the boards and I still yet find myself having epiphanies as I read through other poster's inquiries and thoughts. You'll get all the help need around here, don't be bashful. :)

[Mordaith]

For a few groups I used to GM for, I would right Player Profiles in my DM notes. They would basically assess what the player was looking for out of the game. Where they got their highs from. What aspects of gaming they disliked. I supposed there is no reason that I could not do this for Burning wheel. The mechanics have changed, but peoples motivations for RPing will be recognizable still. I would imagine.

This is good, my mind is pumping a bit more now, getting others opinions on matters seems to be a good way of removing blocks in thought. Yay, let's hear if for collaborative community efforts.

-Mordaith

[Mordaith]

You'll get all the help need around here, don't be bashful. :)

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's not so much being bashful that's the problem. I just dread the idea of repeating a topic, or making some grevious error in forum etiquette. (I'm still doing the beginners luck thing with that skill. Not yet opened. *Drum Roll*)

-Mordaith

[donbaloo]

I just dread the idea of repeating a topic, or making some grevious error in forum etiquette.-Mordaith

Don't worry about that man. Luke hardly ever draws blood and the bruises are always in places that will be hidden by your clothes. He's a professional. ;)

[Thor]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's not so much being bashful that's the problem. I just dread the idea of repeating a topic, or making some grevious error in forum etiquette. (I'm still doing the beginners luck thing with that skill. Not yet opened. *Drum Roll*)

-Mordaith

No worries. We're a pretty forgiving bunch.

[Taladel]

Something I've found is that it really depends on your players. One group I play with has a lot of experience with GM-writes-the-plot adventures, and has created tough, characters without a lot of vulnerabilities. They sat back and waited for me to start throwing shit they'd have to dodge. I was so pumped about the BW play style I'd read about, I sat back and waited them to paint a masterpiece.

The game felt a little aimless. In my adrenaline poisoning, I'd projected what I wanted as a player onto them, and the game that resulted was aimless and unengaging. They've asked me to take a firmer hand in 'the plot'; we'll see how that goes when we reconvene.

The second group I've been playing with is very spontaneous. They created so detail during character burning it made my head spin, and have been pushing for their own goals very firmly ever since. I've had to repeatedly learn that trying to author "the plot" doesn't work at all in this kind of game. In our fourth session, it felt like game seemed to lurch out of my hands under its own accumulated momentum, simultaneously exciting and frightening, as my authorial impulses grab uselessly for a stable handhold. :-)
The second game sounds incredible. Have fun, and link to an AP report if there is one.

If there isn't one, it should be a priority.