Clarification on Sub-Settings, and Certain LP Issues

[vertigo25]

Todays stupid question is brought to you by the letter V and the number 25...

It's a "Setting" if there's a Born, and Sub-Setting if there isn't... yes? Is that the only qualifying difference?

Also... is it just me, or is it really whacky that someone could, if they *really* wanted to, play a character who was Born Noble, became a Page, then a Squire, then a Night, then a Lord, and then suddenly shifted gears and became a Servant?

[Yes... I could easily conceive of a Noble who for some reason looses all of his servants and spends 6 years doing his own dishes... It's still whacky]

I've seen some other kinds of (mildly) weird things, but my question here, really, is... are the LPs intended to always be considered literal? If a player ends up taking something to maybe get a lead to something he *really* wants, but he doesn't think that particular option fits in with his character concept (perhaps it makes him too old, maybe it gives him a trait that *really* doesn't fit... whatever...), would you (as GM) feel that he should make that literal LP part of his background, or would you allow him to fudge it by changing the name of the LP to something more appropriate, or even perhaps changing the req'd Trait (as in the "doesn't fit" example)?

I guess, to put it more succinctly, if you're Born Village, can your background story say you were born in London?

[zabieru]

Lifepaths are literal, however, they are not specific. They are defined by name, resources, skills, traits.

If you were born in a "London" or part of a London that was functionally a village, you would take that LP. If you were born London the way most people born in London these days are, you would not. You do get some say in what the lifepath means, but the text in the rulebook is rules and you don't get to say it didn't happen, just what it means.

This is one of those hard decisions things. You want to be a noble, but you don't want to have sucked up to get there? Tough. Find a way in without taking the Courtier LP. You don't get to take that LP and then assert that it never happened. You DO have the required traits. You DO have the required skills. You DID take those LPs and anyone else who did DOES have a chance to know you and contact you through the Circles. You can pretend it didn't happen during play, but the fact is it did and you're pretending.

I guess the other answer to your question about London is, "sure you can write that in the in-game backstory. It's a lie, but there's nothing says you can't lie (well, except a Duel of Wits about it...)"

[Trismegistus]

All of what zabieru said, but also...

I sometimes find that all of the LPs don't make sense for every case. I advocate tweaking LPs if they don't represent what you need them to for a character - swapping one similar skill or one trait, usually. Your elven sea captain isn't less so if he uses a spear instead of a sword, for example.

On the other hand, I also advocate concepts that are loose enough to serve as a framework for lifepaths. Go back and read the chargen example in the CB. You'll see that Luke goes in with an idea of what his character must be, and then suddenly finds he can't afford the gear, contacts and other stuff to realize the vision. Time to start making compromises!

Don't forget the Quiescent trait, either...get rid of a required LP trait you don't want!

Also, this thread about bastards addresses some of what you're saying, if somewhat obliquely: http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2813&highlight=bastard

If you take a LP, you spend time being and doing that. If you can't fit it with a LP, make it a trait, and if you can't make it a trait, rework the story and make it a goal for play.

[ChrisG]

The cool thing about the LP choices is that you get to brainstorm the background on why that Noble became a lowly Servant--maybe his family was bankrupted? Or he was abducted and sold off? Just as an aside, a Noble who became poor and had to do his own dishes isn't a Servant. He's just broke. :)

My advice is not to get too obsessed over Traits unless they really break your concept. You can always ignore them in play and get them voted off.

For the guy who wants Born Village but also wants to be born in London (arguably as City as you can get in England during the Middle Ages)... ask him why it's so important to his concept--if it's that important, he probably should be City Born. If he just wants to end up in London, or wants contacts in the city, he ought to be able to work that out with judicious use of Leads or an extra LP.

[khelek]

It could also be a great plot hoot and setting driver:

He could have gone to be the personal Servant of the King. The King as we all know is so paranoid that his entire staff is nobility. In fact, gaining access to the group of King's Servants is a sure fire way to gain recognition etc...

also it creates great unrest and many nobles are railing against it etc etc..

cool.