gray stats vs multiple skills

[eruditus]

In my campaign I am still using the original Artha rules with two exceptions. One, I spoke about at length before (spent Artha goes towards new shade).

My second idea is to streamline shaded stats. Basically I am going to allow stats to gray naturally over use through the graying of three appropriate skills instead of directly. For stats that have few skill correlates I plan on allowing people to "call" a skill to an appropriate stat (for instance their weapon skill could be grayed and counted toward Agility or Power, depending on style. I also have a series of skills that I have added (posted soon) that reflect the role of Observation training. ie. Training skills that act as a more direct conduit to utilizing the stat directly. Thus you would be able to gray those training skills and those applications of the stat would be heroic - ie. heroic mounted combat, heroic formation fighting, heroic observation.

Constructive thoughts?

[LordSmerf]

First, i think it's a good idea. I'm not sure that three is the right number of skills, but then again maybe it is.

I'm really interested in seeing what you're thinking for graying Training Skills. Especially since, if i remember correclty, anytime you have to roll and a training skill is involved, you roll a stat...

So, i like the basic idea, and i'm interested to see what you're thinking for the rest...

Thomas

[Yagathai]

Personally, I don't like it. It means that a character needs to excel (be heroic) at what they do before they can be heroic at what they are, that is, in and of themselves. Consequently, it prohibits -- or at least makes exceedingly difficult -- the play and creation of certain concepts and archetypes, like "ordinary man with extraodinary ability" or "young (insert stat here) prodigy" or "lackadaisical genius".

Also, it fiddles with my master plan.

[eruditus]

Personally, I don't like it. It means that a character needs to excel (be heroic) at what they do before they can be heroic at what they are, that is, in and of themselves. Consequently, it prohibits -- or at least makes exceedingly difficult -- the play and creation of certain concepts and archetypes, like "ordinary man with extraodinary ability" or "young (insert stat here) prodigy" or "lackadaisical genius".


Extraordinary Everyman works fine since most of the time those concepts revolve around a particular focus. Maybe its lifting instead of power or seducing women instead of just Will. I think it makes for better roleplaying and needing to focus his strengths and use them creatively.

Same thing goes for the Prodigy - most that you hear of are skill based. The Stats in this game are just a little too broad. your just going to have to learn to develop concepts that don't "require" a "broken" concept.

Again, genius would be skill based. In BW intelligence is developed through complex BITs and high skills. For all these examples graying a skill will usually fit the bill.

Also, it fiddles with my master plan.

ah, now we come down to it. ;)

[eruditus]

What this does make a little too hard is Reflexes. Gray reflexes are very over-powering though so I may just be happy with 9 skills to gray Reflexes - or can you choose Reflexes as a choice for combat skills.

I would treat most other attributes as skills.

[Yagathai]

It forces me to choose to specialize in a way the original rules don't. Nothing says I can't develop Urthgar the Extraordinarily Good Ditch-Digger with the existing rules, but your rules tell me that I can't make Urthgar the Mighty -- at least, not until I've already greyed three power-related skills.

I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense to grey a stats after three related skills are grey -- but I am saying that it doesn't make sense to force you to have to do it that way.

[eruditus]

...but I am saying that it doesn't make sense to force you to have to do it that way.

Well I guess that's just something we disagree with. I have seen no compelling arguement to support it not "making sense." I think it brings it as close to making sense as most any other gritty system.

Of course with this system option, as all others, nothing says a GM could not waive the rules and allow you your unbalanced character.

[Yagathai]

Really, since this is just your personal wrong-headed and overly restrictive scheme, there's nothing that a GM would have to waive -- unless, of course, said GM was you, and by now you of all people should know to just say "no" to everything I ask out of sheer force of habit.

[Kublai]

ok, guys. you're approaching that borderline "insulting" that doesn't get us anywhere. back to your neutral corners.

[Yagathai]

Easy, Pete. It's all in good fun, and Don and I both know it.

[Kublai]

:oops:

::creeps back under rug::

[luke]

Easy, Pete. It's all in good fun, and Don and I both know it.

Yes, but the rest of us don't. Sometimes it's hard for us to see the good-natured sarcasm in everyone's remarks.

Pete is a moderator on these forums and has every right to chime in as he did. I know you two would also respect the necessity of moderation and keeping discussions good-natured.


thanks,
-Luke